Finding Hope in Hard Seasons of Life with Laura Wifler

Hey there, this is Willow Weston.

So glad you hopped on the podcast today.

And if you hang out with me regularly, I love that we get to hang out again right now.

And if you don’t and you, you popped on a few times and you don’t realize you can subscribe to this podcast.

Make sure you do.

Then it’ll be on whatever platform waiting for you.

Super easy.

And today I got to interview someone I’ve interviewed people for.

I think I’m on ninth season now.

So that’s a lot of interviews, a lot of stories.

And I will tell you that this was one of my favorite interviews.

I just felt like Laura Wilfer, who I just interviewed, dropped.

So much goodness, so much spiritual insight.

She is a poet and educator, best selling author of books for adults and children.

She is the co founder of Risen Motherhood.

She just released her newest book called this side of the Sky.

And there were so many things we talked about and I think you’re gonna, you’re gonna love it.

But we had a moment in this interview that was really fun.

I don’t know that I’ve ever done this before, but I decided that I wanted to read her a few of her own poems and then have her respond.

And that was a touching, cool experience for us to have.

And I think you’re going to love this conversation that I had with her.

Speaker A

00:01:38.560 – 00:01:39.200

Check it out.

Willow Weston

00:01:39.200 – 00:01:42.640

Laura, it is so fun to have you on the Collide podcast.

Speaker A

00:01:42.800 – 00:01:44.480

Oh, thank you.

I’m excited to be here.

Willow Weston

00:01:45.470 – 00:02:39.760

Yeah, totally.

Well, I looked into your life.

You did, did a good amount of stalking.

And I mean, there’s so many amazing things to say about you.

You’re a poet and an educator, best selling author of books for adults and children.

And you had once founded a, you were the co founder of Risen Motherhood and have done so much work to meet women where they’re at.

And you, you recently released a book, a poetry book.

And I found out you love coffee and you love design and you love throw pillows.

And I have to tell you that I love coffee design and throw pillows.

Like, yay.

My family mocks me about my throw pillow because I keep buying throw pillows to get the right, like, kind of combo going and I keep not being satisfied and I’m getting mocked at home.

Speaker A

00:02:40.240 – 00:02:47.520

Oh no.

Oh no.

I will not be helpful for this.

I will only perpetuate the, the need for more throw pillows.

Willow Weston

00:02:48.320 – 00:02:53.200

Tell me about your throw pillow obsession.

I just thought it was so random that it’s in your bio.

Speaker A

00:02:53.360 – 00:03:27.979

I know.

Well, you know, I, I do I love interior design.

I love exterior design.

I love homes all around and restaurants or any.

Anywhere I go.

Like, I’m loving the back wall that you’ve got going on there, so it’s so fun.

But I. Yeah, the throw pillow situation, I agree.

I don’t want any of them to match.

I like to use and.

And I use, like, mixed prints, large and small prints, some solids, geometrics with florals.

But it does become sort of this puzzle to sort through.

But when you nail it and you’ve got that good, fluffy insert that’s 2 inches larger, you know, than the actual pillow.

Willow Weston

00:03:27.979 – 00:03:28.500

It’s the.

Speaker A

00:03:28.500 – 00:03:33.020

Or the insert is larger than the COVID you got a great pillow going on.

Willow Weston

00:03:33.340 – 00:03:53.040

Oh, man, I love it.

You even know what size you want and everything.

It’s hilarious.

So funny.

Now I need to see a picture of your couch with your throat, so have to get that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You are a poet.

And there’s the whole silly phrase like, oh, I’m a poet, and I didn’t know it, but I bet there was a time in your life where you didn’t know you were a poet.

Speaker A

00:03:53.200 – 00:03:53.560

Sure.

Willow Weston

00:03:53.560 – 00:04:01.600

Can you take us back to the moment where you first realized that God could use your words?

Speaker A

00:04:03.450 – 00:05:50.040

That God cues my words.

Gracious.

I mean, probably near the time that I started Risen Motherhood, and I think I just didn’t think very deeply about it.

I’ve been writing online since 2008, probably, so, you know, I’m a dinosaur online.

Like, been around since the beginning.

It feels like when people were blogging and those were all the rage and, you know, before Instagram even came out and.

But yet I was really writing just about my regular life.

I wasn’t necessarily publicly a Christian, nor would I consider, like, that it was ministry.

It was an online journal, kind of therapeutic slash, interesting hobby.

You know, a lot of these different things.

But when Risen Motherhood began, I knew that I loved to write.

That that was very clear.

And I was very, actually hesitant to start Risen Motherhood because it was a podcast.

And I was like, do I love to speak, though?

Or, like, speaking felt uncontrolled and felt, you know, very like, kind of wild frontier where writing I could care carefully craft whatever Persona I wanted, and felt like I had more control.

And so as the Lord led me through Risen Motherhood, though, that was probably where I started to realize these words matter and they have power and really wanting to care for the truth of them and making sure that the words that I’m using were not just feel good, vibey words.

That I enjoyed or had a message that was just funsies but really feeling like, wow, there’s um, there’s a lot of work that can be done with words.

And I want to make sure whatever that is is bringing glory to God is leading women in truth and is also meeting women where they’re at and loving them well and realizing you could really hurt as you write and you’re not, if you’re not being careful, um, and you still can hurt people.

Willow Weston

00:05:50.040 – 00:05:50.240

Right?

Speaker A

00:05:50.240 – 00:06:17.530

There’s I, I’ll never forget another writer gave me the advice and said you can’t help one person without probably hurting another.

And it’s just great.

Advice is not universal.

And so you’ll say something to one group of women and it will be so helpful, it’ll be the most helpful thing to ever heard.

But another group of women who are in a different situation will say that’s actually not helpful right now.

And you have to kind of like come to terms with that.

I think as someone who produces any type of work online or out of.

Willow Weston

00:06:17.530 – 00:06:47.210

Public sphere, I want to talk to you more about your writing.

But before we kind of get get into it, talk to us a little bit about you Co founded Risen Motherhood and it seems like it took off and then it recently got closed down.

So that must have been a really big decision for you.

And now you’re, it seems like you’re leaning more into your writing gifting.

So can you invite us into kind of what happened and why you made that decision?

Speaker A

00:06:47.610 – 00:10:18.830

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I kind of hinted at before, but Risen motherhood started about 11 years ago.

My sister in law and I were both writing online, individually and offline.

We were talking about raising our kids and what the best way to do that would be and kind of asking the question I think most moms ask, which is how can I glorify God in my motherhood?

You know, what’s the best way to glorify God is and does he care about what kind of diapers I buy or you know, we’re in the thick of the toddler years, like does he care about how I sleep train?

Is there a more Christian way to do that?

And so the ministry was formed because we basically started airing those kind of conversations and writing about those kind of things and really asking brass tacks, practical questions of what does it look like to glorify God in motherhood?

And what you.

Spoiler alert.

What it always, almost always comes down to is it’s about the state of your heart.

It’s far less about you Know what diapers you buy or what you feed at snap time.

It’s about your heart as you serve your family.

And so that became the ministry that did grow very rapidly.

It felt like we had struck a chord through for many moms and really resonated with them.

And yet, gosh, it would have been, you know, three or four years ago now where we just kept checking in consistently about, do we want to keep doing this?

Is this something we want to continue with?

And it was always either, you know, one of us was up and one of us was down, just like in a marriage, you know, like, we kind of always pulled each other through it.

But there was one day I turned to Emily and just said, hey, I think I’m kind of ready to be done.

And she was like, me too.

And it was just, wow, the Lord had really knit our hearts in that way.

And so of course, like, that meant we were ready to be done, which meant we had a whole lot more work ahead to actually close the ministry.

And so as we went about doing that, it was definitely really hard to think through what’s the best way to steward something that is actually at a high point.

Right.

Like when we kind of decided lows risen motherhood had nowhere to go but keep going up.

And we felt like we didn’t want to be that sitcom that just keeps running like two or three extra seasons and you’re like, they should have just ended it, you know, on the high point.

And so that’s kind of the position that we were taking.

And there were a wide variety of reasons that are far more than I want to be done.

Right.

There was.

Our kids were growing up and getting older.

We had different dreams and interests coming in.

We felt like we, we didn’t want to talk about adult topics that we hadn’t really walked through with our own children yet.

You know, talking about snack time is a lot different than talking about sexual orientation.

And we felt like we weren’t really ready to be the public speakers on some of these, this world that we were walking into as parents ourselves.

And so there were.

That’s just a few.

And it’s online.

You can go read it if you have interest in more reasons why we closed.

But certainly a difficult decision, but I don’t regret it for a second.

I’ve never regretted it.

And you know, the women who wanted to kind of continue watching our ministry came with.

And I trust that the Lord has, you know, takes care of everyone who was in the community.

It felt like a tight knit community, even though it was hundreds of thousands of moms.

And it’s cool because I think there are other voices that can be raised up in my place and can speak to the next generation of moms in a far better way than I ever could.

And so I know that, you know, the.

The world of Internet moms and Christian moms is in good hands.

Willow Weston

00:10:18.830 – 00:10:19.230

So it’s.

Speaker A

00:10:19.230 – 00:10:20.310

It’s not been abandoned.

Willow Weston

00:10:21.830 – 00:11:09.180

It’s so cool that you.

It hasn’t felt like a death to you, that it’s actually felt like something you were doing out of obedience and you were aligning with the Lord even in your posture, that it was something you wanted, and it just has felt good and felt right.

That’s a gift.

Like, that doesn’t always happen for people when they close down something.

They found it.

It’s super, super cool.

That was your experience.

It’s said of you that you have long offered Christian women a place to feel seen in the midst of ordinary life.

And I’m wondering if you think you’re good at that.

Like, are you good at that because there was a time where you didn’t feel seen in ordinary life or why do you think you’re so gifted to be able to.

To do that?

Speaker A

00:11:10.550 – 00:13:35.970

I don’t know.

That’s a great question.

I haven’t really thought that deeply about it.

I think one thing is that I’m pretty transparent, and I make friends pretty easily.

And part of that is that I am willing to share about my life and to tell the stories and to let people in.

And I’m pretty fearless, which means I believe the best in people.

And I’m typically an optimist.

And so even though the Internet isn’t always kind, I generally bounce right back and really feel like I’m still willing to share and keep going and to be honest in hopes that it helps other people be honest.

And I think there’s a real difference in vulnerability versus transparency, because I think sometimes people are like, how can you be so vulnerable?

And I don’t feel vulnerable online because when you’re vulnerable, that means you’re giving something to someone that they can use against you that they can potentially hurt you with.

And the way that I look at my online ministry is, number one, my identity is.

Is rooted in Christ, which means no one can really hurt me at the end of the day, you know, that I trust that he has me where I’m at and that his righteousness is mine, and that that’s what the Lord is looking at.

And so even when maybe someone doesn’t understand Me or I don’t, I’m not relatable or whatever, I can trust that as long as I steward the message that the Lord has given me and I’m walking in lockstep with him, that it’s okay.

And even when I mess that up, because I do, I am so imperfect, it’s still okay.

And so I think that provides a lot of courage and bravery to be able to speak in a really open way that I would say is very transparent rather than vulnerable, because I don’t feel vulnerable about what I share.

And there are, of course, things that the Internet doesn’t get right.

There’s this level of.

I’ve had to remind myself the Internet does not get my grief.

They don’t deserve it.

And it can feel like, as someone who shares online, that you owe people justification for why you say what you say or why you feel what you feel.

But I think, I hope that it’s clear I’ve chosen to share some things with the community and trust that I have a deep trust in my readers that they will take that and that they will sort that out and they will receive it with compassion.

And if they can’t, then that’s between them and the Lord, not between me and them, and it’s all right.

Willow Weston

00:13:37.650 – 00:13:48.530

I love.

I love the confidence that you have from the Lord to lay it out there and not waver due to other people’s responses.

Speaker A

00:13:48.610 – 00:14:28.800

Yeah, yeah.

It doesn’t mean they’re not far.

It just means, like, I can logically walk myself through them and say, what opinion really matters?

Well, it’s God’s.

And then it’s my husband, it’s my dear close friends, it’s my pastors.

Right.

So there are opinions that matter in my life, but it’s.

It’s not the outside voices.

Even if that’s hard to hear sometimes, for me, it doesn’t mean it’s not hard.

But I think all of us need to figure out the priority of voices in our life.

And because you’re always going to have that dissenting voice.

And so as you can kind of prioritize who that is, and that’s kind of how the Bible talks through is like, hey, these are some of the ways that you can know if a decision is right and good or if maybe you need to be rethinking things,.

Willow Weston

00:14:29.920 – 00:14:40.480

You’re giving language to women who maybe feel struggle or aches.

Why do you think it’s so important to be honest and to name those things?

Speaker A

00:14:41.760 – 00:16:24.550

Yeah, I mean, I think that I have seen so Often when I or someone else is willing to go first, the whole room just decompresses and takes off their mask.

And I see that among men and among women that like we were talking about, there’s someone who has to have the courage to go first.

And once that’s done, it’s like everyone takes off their masks and set them down and it’s like, oh, me too.

I thought I was the only one, you know, And I think we have this narrative of I’m the only one that feels this way or express experiences this thing.

8 Billion people on the planet.

Newsflash.

You are not.

There is no way that you are the only one in the world.

And there may be tiny nuances to each of our griefs and difficulties, but I’ve come to find there is a plumb line that runs through grief and suffering.

And that while maybe I’m dealing with my daughter with disabilities or with my dad having Parkinson’s or with chronic pain, and you’re dealing with the death of a parent or a difficult sibling relationship that’s estranged, there’s still this like meet in the middle spot where it’s like, yeah, I get that you’re wishing we lived in Eden and we live post fall and we are dealing with the reality of the pain on this side of the earth.

And that totally sucks.

And sometimes you just need somebody who says that and articulates that.

Even though your, your grief has different facets, of course, but at the end of the day, that pain and that feeling of this life is not the way it’s supposed to be.

Something is wrong.

I am longing for something better that’s the same no matter what you’re going through.

Willow Weston

00:16:26.790 – 00:16:49.480

You started writing online and then as you said, it became with your sister in law Risen Motherhood and became this online ministry for moms.

I’m curious what you would say, like, what’s.

What’s one of the main things you learned from other moms?

Moming.

And what’s one of the main things your own children have taught you?

Speaker A

00:16:51.640 – 00:22:16.610

Learning from other moms?

I would say that this isn’t maybe exactly what you’re looking for, but I think the biggest thing Risen motherhood taught me and how to love other moms is my speech and my language.

And what I mean by that is even if I’m in a room with a friend, one friend, or I’m on a stage speaking to 4000 moms, that being cautious and careful of how I frame things, using words like, hey, you may have felt like this, this could have Been your experience, perhaps, right.

Women are really, really attuned to nuances in our language.

And they care so deeply about their experiences and what they’re going through in their life.

And it’s so big and real that they.

They desperately want to do it well.

Right.

These moms.

What I saw was so many moms just like me saying, I don’t know what I’m doing, but I want to do it well.

Right?

And so your advice, and suddenly it becomes gospel to them.

And so I’ve had to kind of learn how to offer advice in a way, even to a dear friend that offers room for them to go off and make a different decision and to allow differences among moms, because I think we feel more secure when all the moms are doing what we’re doing.

Right.

We want to be.

We want to be with the pack.

We want.

We don’t want to be alone.

And so.

And yet there will be decisions in your motherhood that will look different than everyone else around you.

Again, you’re not alone.

You’re not the only mom on the planet doing that, but might feel like it.

And so that I think both things, like, one is just being cautious and careful in the language that you use.

And then perhaps I’ll spread that out to this idea of be careful and cautious to not make blanket rules and statements for what mom should do or look like, what a good Christian mom should do or look like.

Because moms take that and they hear that and they’re like, great, I’m going to do it.

Because we want that playbook and to recognize there is so much freedom in what a good mom looks like and what a gospel fearing mom looks like.

And so we have to allow nuance and allow space for that.

In terms of my own children, I mean, it’s taught me more than most things where my identity is found, and it’s taught me what success looks like.

So I have a daughter with intellectual disabilities that I hinted at earlier.

And when she was diagnosed, it became the question of.

I kept asking, will she go to college?

Right.

She is two months old, sitting in my arms in this geneticist office, and I’m just fixated on will my daughter go to college?

Like.

Like, as if that is some measure.

I think deep down in my soul.

It was a.

It was a measure of success for me.

It wasn’t if she got married, it wasn’t if she, you know, has a certain job, but it was like, oh, you’re smart enough and successful enough to go to college and get a degree.

And the doctor was kind of like, we don’t need to worry about that now.

You know, he.

He’s soft and.

And gentle about that.

But I thought about how.

I ruminated on that a lot and how having.

Your having children, I think no matter if they’re typically developing or intellectually disabled, it certainly faces you with, what does success mean?

And what is a good life on this earth?

And you.

You have to start answering that question.

Otherwise you will.

Because you’re going to impose it on your child, right?

And you’re gonna try to get your child to live into whatever you believe is a good and successful life.

Whatever you believe matters in this life.

And so by having a child with intellectual disabilities, it really started to teach me, gosh, nothing else really matters except that she loves Jesus in whatever way her little mind can comprehend.

That’s what matters.

It’s not if she goes to college.

It’s not if she has friends.

It’s not if she has her health, she can walk or she can talk.

It’s literally, lord Jesus, save her.

That’s what matters.

By your hand, whatever it takes in the way that her mind can comprehend it, draw her to yourself.

That is success.

So that’s my goal as a mom, right, for all of my kids, is what does it look like to show them the Gospel day in and day out?

And there will be days where they will hear from people that will say, you’re bad at this, you’re ugly.

You don’t have cool clothes.

Why don’t you have an iPhone, whatever it is, you know, we’re in the teen years right now, and I’ve had to say, and look my older daughter in the eye.

She’s typically developing.

I say, honey, girl, are you going to believe what they say about you, or are you going to believe what God says about you?

And so we walk through the gospel and we walk through what God says about her.

And at the end of the day, I’m just praying with everything I have in my heart that she trusts what God says about her.

And the same I have to do all the time.

Are you gonna trust what that neighbor of yours said about you?

Are you gonna trust what the Internet said about you, of what that person you work for said about you?

And so I’m constantly asking that.

And it doesn’t mean we don’t course correct or fix or change, but it means that we rest in our identity in Christ and that we don’t let what other people say get to define us.

It’s just about loving Jesus, at the.

Willow Weston

00:22:16.610 – 00:22:34.450

End of the day, I love that so much.

It’s so timely.

We have a conference coming up in November, and it’s called Getting Unstuck, and we’re flying amazing speakers in to talk about this sort of idea of these lies that stick to us.

Speaker A

00:22:34.450 – 00:22:35.010

Yeah.

Willow Weston

00:22:35.170 – 00:23:37.310

And so often what I found is, as moms, we spend so much time trying to keep lies from sticking onto our kids and trying to tell our kids God’s truth.

But it’s a confusing.

It’s confusing messaging when we’re doing that for our kids, but not for ourselves.

Like when we’re sitting there and we’re beating up our body and saying, I. I’m so ugly.

I’m so fat.

I hate what I look like.

And then we’re looking at our daughter and we’re saying, you, you’re beautiful.

Don’t.

Don’t look in the mirror and say that about yourself.

And so the work starts with us, I think, as moms.

Like, how am I believing what God says about me so that then I can invite you to do the same?

Right?

Like, have you seen.

Have you seen this to be true?

And how does that get confusing?

Like a mom who wants something for her kids but isn’t, isn’t doing the work for herself.

Like, talk to us about that a little bit.

Speaker A

00:23:37.680 – 00:24:59.380

Yeah.

I mean, so common.

I. I find myself living dualities in my own life all the time, so I’m right there with other people.

And I think that it is something where it is far more easy to say, you know, do as I say, not as.

Not as I do.

And I. I think, like, so much of this is preaching the gospel to ourselves because we’re sitting there and we’re preaching the gospel to our children, and we can.

We have eyes to see really easy where they’re going wrong or what’s not true.

And we’re desperate for them.

Believe the truth.

Right?

Because we.

We see it.

It’s so clear as day to us.

And I think, though, for ourselves, it takes a reframing and a training of the mind.

And it’s something that.

Just the way you may say, I want to exercise consistently, I want to have my quiet time consistently, or whatever goal or habit you have, man.

It was about four or five years into motherhood where I realized this preaching the gospel to myself thing, that’s actually going to take some work to, like, not only build it as a habit that I try to do.

Right.

That I’m like, oh, I actually think of to do that because.

Right.

So often we don’t even think of it.

And then two, to know how to do it.

Because there is a skill in how to preach the gospel.

And you might say, like, oh, I look ugly.

Well, how do.

What’s the gospel?

Right?

Like, I found myself for so long not even knowing what truth to preach.

Besides, that’s not true.

Right?

God loves you.

Willow Weston

00:24:59.380 – 00:24:59.620

Right?

Speaker A

00:24:59.620 – 00:27:30.000

It’s this generic thing.

And that’s good.

But I think there is value to.

When we say, again, if we’re sitting here saying, what’s the most important thing in this world?

To love Jesus and do as he commands, that’s the most important thing in this world.

And so therefore, we should know about it, we should learn about it.

We should apply ourselves to saying, I want to understand this truth and how it applies to my life and to others.

Because the gospel has an answer for everything.

And it’s always a better answer.

That’s what’s so exciting, is it’s way better than what the world gives us.

And so I think I had to take some time.

And part of this is my work at Risen Motherhood.

Like, I was pretty lucky because my job forced me to do this, right?

Not everyone has the luxury.

They’re running homes, they’re running businesses.

They have all sorts of things going on.

And so I understand that, like, time isn’t always there to do that.

But I would encourage, if you can, apply yourself and to be able to say, gosh, the Lord made me to age.

The Lord made this as a good thing.

It says, gray hairs are a crown of glory.

Okay, why?

Why?

Because someday I’m meant for heaven.

I’m not meant for this world.

So maybe, perhaps by allowing my lines to show, by allowing the gray hair to show, by embracing my age, I am a beacon to this world that I was made for another.

And that’s the gospel in it, right?

Like, Jesus is going to come and he’s going to rescue me.

And so I have heaven to look forward to.

And we even now have promises in Christ that say, okay, because Jesus died on the cross, part of the gospel, because Jesus died on the cross.

When I think that I look ugly and old, I can think to myself and remember well that Jesus provides me with everything.

He has all of his patience, his long suffering, his goodness, his kindness, his compassion.

And I can have compassion for myself that I live on this side of the fall and that this is hard.

It kind of sucks to grow old because I wasn’t meant to originally.

And that that’s like, wow, what a gift that it is.

Okay, for us to feel kind of sad that we look like we’re growing old.

But on the other hand, again, we talked about, well, we’re looking forward to heaven.

And so it also means this world isn’t my home.

This stinky, horrible world.

Sometimes that kind of is.

I don’t really want to stay in.

Well, I’m going to another.

So look at this wrinkle, because that’s going to be gone someday.

But it’s just pointing to an eternal reality.

Right?

So we can reframe things that are thinking that we are thinking in a way that I think is far more encouraging than.

No, you’re.

You’re pretty.

Don’t worry.

You know, it’s way different.

It’s a whole different paradigm.

Willow Weston

00:27:35.440 – 00:28:44.580

If you’re longing to grow in Jesus, make sure you check out my new Bible study book, Collide, A Six Week Journey Toward Healing.

It comes with six teaching sessions.

Reflection, questions, prayers, all the things you need to grow.

If you’re longing for that, you can do this by yourself.

But you could also grab some girls and gr.

There’s powerful things that happen when we gather together.

We’re already hearing feedback on how this is impacting lives.

So make sure you get your very own collide study wherever you get books.

Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever.

Let’s keep colliding.

I love that you’re giving us such practical examples.

I wanted to do something fun or I think it’s fun.

I hope you think it’s fun.

I think it’s fun.

I want to read a few of your excerpts of your writing and then talk to you about them.

Oh, it’s funny because I screenshotted them, but just for fun, here’s a picture of my son last night facetiming me wild and crazy.

I just was like, whoa, that scared me.

Okay, I’m gonna read you some excerpts and then we can talk about it.

Speaker A

00:28:44.580 – 00:28:45.140

All right?

Willow Weston

00:28:45.380 – 00:29:47.780

And you know, I’m not gonna read it like a poet, because I’m not a poet, but I’m gonna do my best, Laura, to point to your beautiful writing.

Right now.

Thousands of women are bloated after eating a burrito.

Millions will go without makeup, and even more will dutifully pull their hair back into the faithful ponytail.

Countless women do not have the time, desire, or money to spend on skin care, Botox, or injections.

Some women will pull on stained sweats, others, sweater ponchos.

Nearly every mother has eye bags and sagging breasts.

A large portion of the female population has not shaped their legs.

Today, we all have cellulite somewhere.

Most women haven’t hit their protein goals and have certainly had chocolate.

Here is what you must know when you start to believe that all women are beautiful, trendy and perfect.

Close your phone and go out into the world.

The vast majority of us do not have hip dips or thigh gaps, but every one of us has a heart.

Take care of yours.

Talk to us about that.

Speaker A

00:29:49.460 – 00:31:05.280

Yeah, you know, I mean, this is the perpetual plight of social media and a life online, I think is.

It’s really easy, I think, whenever I’m in my own home, in my four walls to start to think that everyone out there is prettier, that I’m the ugliest, that I don’t try, that I need to be trendier, buy better pants or buy better makeup or whatever.

And it’s funny because I just realized, you know, I was walking around Walmart one day and I was like, not one Instagram influencer in this place.

Not one Instagram influencer.

You know, and it was just kind of a good for.

I live in small town Iowa, so maybe if you live in, like, la, it’s different.

But it was so refreshing to just look around, look at the women and be like, looking pretty the same, you know, we’re looking pretty, pretty.

Okay.

And so it was just one of those things where I realized how much culture is perpetuating this idea and this lie of.

Of everyone else looks like this.

Therefore, you need to get this and something.

I. I talk to my kids a lot and I’ve talked a lot about is that contentment doesn’t sell.

The worst thing for America is for us to become content because nobody buys anything.

If we are suddenly a people that are content, as the Bible tells us to be, it doesn’t mean we never buy anything.

But man, do you.

Willow Weston

00:31:05.280 – 00:31:05.600

The.

Speaker A

00:31:05.600 – 00:31:11.920

The spending would go so far down in this country and it would absolutely be devastating for.

Willow Weston

00:31:12.080 – 00:31:15.680

Imagine what would happen if we got content about our throw pillows.

Laura.

Speaker A

00:31:15.760 – 00:31:24.080

I know.

I mean, Barn and Etsy in business.

No, exactly.

But there is something to be said about battle.

Willow Weston

00:31:24.240 – 00:31:24.480

Wow.

Speaker A

00:31:24.480 – 00:32:09.070

Yeah.

If I really just stopped consuming all that.

Because, like, I even realized too that sometimes because I’m on.

On the Internet, I’ll be like, ooh, I’m gonna.

I wanna wear this trend.

I wanna try this trend.

And like, I’m the only person in my whole.

I go to a large church, 3,000 people.

I’m the only person in my church that’s tries that trend.

Even though on Instagram, it feels like everyone’s doing it.

The whole world’s dressing like this.

But then I show up to my normal small town, Iowa megachurch.

Admittedly, everyone seems to go to the same church, and I’m the only one wearing that, you know, and it’s just like, oh, man, you gotta chill out.

Just live your life, you know, and just wake up in the morning and be yourself.

And don’t.

Don’t think like, I gotta have a carpool outfit or a pickup line outfit.

And, you know, you gotta just.

It just perpetuates these ideas in your head that wouldn’t even be there.

So.

Willow Weston

00:32:09.790 – 00:32:10.910

Okay, I have another one.

Speaker A

00:32:10.990 – 00:32:11.870

All right, let’s go.

Willow Weston

00:32:12.910 – 00:33:09.940

It’s called Best Friends forever Ever.

My friends and I like to make Bible jokes, like, in heaven, let’s meet up at the north side middle gate so we can hang this from Revelation 21.

Except for me.

It’s not a joke.

I mean it down to my fallen bones.

When the end comes and the new begins, I’ll be at that gate just as soon as I can.

I don’t really know what waits for us, and I know we’ll all want to meet the king first, but then I hope they come find me on the golden streets under the north middle gate.

It’s there.

I’ll be scanning the crowds for them and their dear, familiar souls.

Of course, of course we’ll make new friends.

But I can’t imagine not wanting my best friends.

Perhaps then I will introduce them as my old Earth friends or some other celestial title.

But no matter what, I will hold hope and even pray that we really will be best friends forever in every sense of ever, because I can’t imagine life without them this side of heaven or the other.

Speaker A

00:33:10.900 – 00:35:20.580

I’m tearing up listening to that.

Oh, my gosh, so silly.

I wrote it.

But, yeah, you know, I have really good friends and we’ve worked really hard on our friendships, and it hasn’t always been this way for me, but in this season and where I live now, I feel like the Lord has really blessed us with incredible friends.

And, you know, some of the griefs and suffering we’ve walked through has really knitted our hearts together.

And so this is a joke from my church, the north side middle gate piece, which, you know, if you study heaven and Revelation, there’s a bunch of different gates around the city of Jerusalem that you can enter in.

And so we joked, hey, cornerstone, which is my church, let’s meet at the north side middle gate so that we can all see each other, you know, and it’s just kind of a family joke.

And Yet I’m like, I’m not joking.

Like, honestly, I need to find my friends in heaven.

And because they have meant so much to me, and I do believe, you know, this is.

This is not perfectly theologically correct, Laura, but I can believe like that the Lord.

Well, and I know this.

Our God is in the business of renewal.

He’s in the business of making things new, not making new things, right?

So we see that God is going to remake the heavens and the earth.

He’s not going to blast this one and make an entirely new one.

He’s going to remake this earth into what it was always supposed to be.

And so I’m a firm believer in heaven that those friendships will last because God is in the business of renewal.

They will be this perfect version of the friendship that we couldn’t achieve here on Earth.

But those friendships will be real.

We can’t probably possibly know everyone in heaven.

And this is where, you know, you’re getting a little bit of Laura’s personal thoughts.

But I think that we’ll still have friends and communities and groups and some people that were closer than one another.

And I can’t prove that biblically, but it seems like we can look at patterns here on earth to know what the new heavens and new earth look like.

And so, yeah, that poem just came out of a way, a desire to.

To honor my friends here, to express how much I love them, and also probably a bit of, you know, my own personal beliefs.

Willow Weston

00:35:20.580 – 00:35:25.380

So, okay, I have one more because this is so fun.

Are you having fun?

Speaker A

00:35:25.540 – 00:35:26.140

So, fine.

Willow Weston

00:35:26.140 – 00:35:31.500

I’m crying.

Okay.

Okay.

Instructions on motherhood.

Speaker A

00:35:31.660 – 00:35:32.220

Yes.

Willow Weston

00:35:32.700 – 00:36:47.160

On Tuesdays, slip love notes in their lunchbox.

When you need to leave the house, start preparations twice.

As soon as you think you should, put the dandelions they bring you from the yard in a vase by the window.

Take note of the small miracles, the rosy cheeks when they come in from the cold, how socks match, the way they hum up the stairs.

Do not Google your heavy worries.

At midnight, apologize often and press their warm bodies close to your heart.

Make it a practice to take them outside and show them the stars.

Point out Orion, Tarsus, Gemini, and tell them about the God that made everyone.

Most things are fixed by honey, tea and a blanket.

Pray for help often.

When in doubt, go outside to give the kids fresh air and sunlight.

Perhaps most importantly, remember, motherhood is not a contest.

It is not a performance.

It is not a measuring stick of your worth.

You will not have all the answers, and that is just fine.

But what you can have is the Courage to live fully in each moment.

Don’t wait to feel ready or for everything to make sense.

Be present, Grow with them.

Experience motherhood in every way it is offered.

We have so much of them, we have so little of them.

It will all be more beautiful than you could ever believe.

Speaker A

00:36:50.250 – 00:36:53.210

Man, I’ve never had my own writing make me cry, except when I’m writing it.

Willow Weston

00:36:54.730 – 00:36:58.330

They always say people don’t usually read our own writing back to us.

Speaker A

00:36:58.410 – 00:38:59.370

We have not had them read to me.

They say, no tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.

So I guess I’ve accomplished that because I wrote them and now I’m crying.

But, yeah, you know, this one, that last couple lines that you read, we have so much of them.

We have so little of them.

That was sort of the part of the poem when I first wanted to write it out was this juxtaposition that I was feeling of, Gosh, I have 18 years with my kids and we spend all this time together, and I know so much about them and I’ve shaped and formed them.

But as they’ve gotten older and become their own little people, you just realize how little you really have and how there’s so much more going on under the surface.

And I don’t know if any mom’s ever experienced this, but this sometimes.

A few times I’ve had this experience where I realized that something’s been going on with my child that I had no idea about.

Maybe they’ve been suffering in a way or something’s going on at school or whatever.

And it just breaks you when you realize, I didn’t know, you know, and how could I not have known?

And so I think with this, it’s about maximizing the time that we have with our babies and loving them well and soaking up all those little moments.

But I wanted it to feel more than the, you know, it goes by so fast, enjoy it vibe and just, like, go on the journey, you know, recognize that you are going to look back and you’re going to be like, man, I wish I would have done better here, there, and everywhere.

And I wish I would have soaked that up.

That you’re going to do that.

It doesn’t matter how good you did as a mom, how well you followed it, you’re going to look back and have regrets, because that is life.

But also, like, look at how much you have going forward and enjoy that ride and trust that this is going to be an incredible experience that you do not deserve, but you are so grateful for and so soak that up and thank God that they’re yours.

Willow Weston

00:39:01.130 – 00:39:14.980

So good.

Laura, you just released your newest book, this side of the sky, and it’s this moving collection of poetry.

And I. I’m gonna say it out loud.

I gain nothing from people buying your book.

Speaker A

00:39:15.460 – 00:39:16.020

Yeah.

Willow Weston

00:39:17.300 – 00:39:37.600

But I’m talking about it because I think my listeners could gain a lot from grabbing your book.

So you are really exploring the realities of living in the in between.

Can you just talk to us about what you mean by the in between and why.

Why you want to talk about it so much?

Speaker A

00:39:38.400 – 00:42:55.300

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s pretty clear because why I like talking about it.

I’ve talked about it a lot already on this podcast, but the book is called this side of the Sky.

And really, it’s just this poetic way of saying the already but not yet.

So if anyone’s familiar with that phrasing, it’s kind of a common Christian colloquialism, but essentially, it’s this idea that we are living on this side of redemption.

And so we do have these promises of Christ that we can access and see and use and apply to our lives with the Holy Spirit living and moving in us, but it isn’t fully realized yet.

Right.

We’re living in this, like, halfway waiting room, some people call it, where someday the Lord is going to remake the earth, and we have heaven to look forward to.

No more pain, no more sorrow, no more difficulty or crying.

And so we’re living in this halfway.

And what does it mean?

And something I wanted to express with this side of the sky is that so often we are on.

We think of ourselves as on this side of the sky, and God’s up there on that side of the sky, and he’s doing his thing and keeping the world together.

And we’re down here trying to, like, keep our worlds together.

And they’re not to.

They’re not meshing.

But the reality is, is that God is on this side of the sky with the Holy Spirit, moving and active and living in us.

And we just have eyes, need to have eyes to see.

But then, yet someday, on that side of the sky, it’s going to collapse.

And the Lord is going to come to this earth.

He’s going to plant his feet on this ground.

He’s going to rise to his full height, and he is going to come, and he’s going to come for his people.

He’s going to come for you, and he’s going to say, we are done with this now, onto new things, and he’s going to remake this earth.

And it is going to be beautiful and joyful and incredible.

And no longer will we be dealing with what we’re dealing with here.

And so that is a promise that man, I think I’m 40 years old.

Maybe I get to live to 80.

I’d like to go to 80, maybe no further.

But 80 would be good.

But that’s not that long, right?

Let’s say I make it to 90, okay?

I think I can make it another 40, 50 years.

I can do that.

I can give Jesus everything for another 40 or 50 years, because look what’s waiting for me for trillions more after.

It is such a short life we lead on this Earth and we think it’s so long and so hard, but we have to pull back and get this perspective that recognizes actually, it’s a blip.

And we can do this.

We can follow Jesus.

And I say Jesus all the time.

Sometimes it’s a scary prayer.

But, Lord, I just want to spend it all for you.

What does it look like for me to spend every ounce of everything you’ve ever given me?

Just spend it all.

And so that’s my goal, is that someday, whether the Lord returns first or he calls me home through natural death, that I follow him and I spend it all and I can get to the end and just live it up on the other side of heaven.

I’m so excited.

So that kind of.

The book explores in a poetic, less exciting way, probably than I’m explaining it, but in a way that’s what the book is exploring, is this tension that we’re feeling and hopefully teaching the reader how to kind of lift the veil a little and see that there’s a whole lot going on to life than we can see.

Willow Weston

00:42:57.380 – 00:43:16.840

Laura, I am grateful that you are committed to spending your life and giving it away for Jesus.

And I’m thankful for the way that’s blessing other people in, including us.

And so today I know there’s women who are going to want to spend more time with you and spend the next 50 years with you.

Speaker A

00:43:16.920 – 00:43:17.559

Let’s go.

Willow Weston

00:43:17.559 – 00:43:22.840

That an ID?

How can they find you?

Get hold of your latest book, all that stuff.

Speaker A

00:43:22.840 – 00:43:45.940

Sure, yeah.

I hang out at laurawilfer.com that’s kind of my main hub for the different things I’m involved in.

And then Instagram is probably where I’m most active day to day.

I have a newsletter and I write articles.

And as you noted originally, I’m kind of like all over the Internet doing all sorts of things, so you never know what you’re going to find if you come follow me.

But I love it there.

It’s a great community of women and men and we have a great time.

Willow Weston

00:43:47.300 – 00:43:51.140

I love it so much.

Thank you for hanging out with us today.

Speaker A

00:43:51.700 – 00:43:53.060

You bet.

Thanks for having me.

Willow Weston

00:43:53.460 – 00:44:34.930

Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Laura as much as I enjoyed having it.

I liked her so much that I literally sent an all caps email to some of my staff girls saying please get this woman to come speak at one of our conferences soon.

She is amazing so be on the lookout for that because Laura we’re after you.

We want you to come and share in person so much goodness.

If this interview blessed you and you want to bless someone else, make sure you share it.

That’s you taking part in this ministry with me to say hey, let’s get the word out.

Invite more people to collide with Jesus us.

So keep colliding and we’ll catch you next week.