How to Heal Your Marriage After Porn Addiction with Charity and Clinton Munoz

Hey there.

Welcome to the Collide Podcast.

I’m Willow Weston and I’m so glad I get to hang out with you today.

I just had Clinton and Charity Munoz on.

I had them on five years ago.

Like them so much that I couldn’t wait to to have them back on today.

And they also had me on their podcast.

So we did kind of like a switcheroo.

I don’t even know what you call it.

Anyways, it was such a great day hanging out with these two.

I respect them so much.

I love how vulnerable and honest they are about their messy story.

And we talked about this whole idea of can broken things really be restored?

And they’re a testament that they can.

And I don’t know what you have going on in your life.

I don’t know what feels broken or hard or impossible to fix.

But these two hop on today and share their story of the brokenness that they brought into their marriage and how they hurt and broke each other and what God did that in the midst of that.

And so if you need some encouragement today, listen to this podcast and make sure while you’re listening, if someone comes to mind, if there’s a friend or a family member where you’re like, man, they could use this encouragement.

That simple share button is you ministering to someone else.

You bringing healing into someone else’s life, you helping someone else.

And so I’d love for you to join me in sharing this message.

So take a listen.

Guys, it’s so good to have you back on the Collide podcast.

Charity Munoz
00:01:41.390 – 00:01:43.950
We are so excited.

It’s been a couple.

Willow Weston
00:01:44.590 – 00:01:53.790
Yeah, like five years.

Is that what you said?

It’s been five years?

Yeah, a lot happened in five years.

Holy moly.

How old are your guys kids now?

Charity Munoz
00:01:55.040 – 00:02:02.320
Oh, man.

A nine year old, eight year old and a six year old.

So we are now in fourth grade, third grade and first grade.

Clinton Munoz
00:02:02.320 – 00:02:02.720
Yeah.

Willow Weston
00:02:02.800 – 00:02:04.720
Oh, those are really pretty old.

Clinton Munoz
00:02:04.720 – 00:02:09.680
When you start saying like you’re about to have a double digits, he’ll be 10 in two months.

I’m like, wow, how old am I?

Charity Munoz
00:02:09.680 – 00:02:10.200
I know.

Willow Weston
00:02:10.200 – 00:02:27.510
Oh yeah.

I stood at the.

I will never forget when Aiden turned 10.

That’s our oldest.

I was, I said goodnight to him and I stood at the end of his bed and I just started crying and he’s like, mom, what’s wrong?

Why are you crying?

But it’s like you’re double digits.

Like, I can’t believe this.

Clinton Munoz
00:02:27.590 – 00:02:29.110
That’s gonna be me for sure.

Willow Weston
00:02:29.110 – 00:02:35.910
Kids are like, why are you crying?

Happy.

Why are you crying?

Happy.

What’s going on here?

Oh, man.

Charity Munoz
00:02:35.990 – 00:02:36.910
It’s a big deal.

Clinton Munoz
00:02:36.910 – 00:02:37.590
It’s a big deal.

Willow Weston
00:02:37.590 – 00:02:38.950
Yeah, it is a big deal.

Clinton Munoz
00:02:39.350 – 00:02:41.590
So it’s like, first one, you know, all that stuff.

Willow Weston
00:02:41.590 – 00:03:08.560
Yeah, yeah.

Super big deal.

So I thought it’d be fun.

We’re gonna talk all things marriage today on the podcast because that’s what you guys have become known for, experts in and done most your work around.

But before we jump into some of the hard stuff and the holy stuff, I just want to hear, like, from both of you.

Let’s get, like, funniest day experience you guys have ever had with each other.

Wow.

Clinton Munoz
00:03:09.200 – 00:03:15.440
Wow.

What are you gonna tell?

What are you gonna tell?

I was gonna tell our most recent one.

I just wanna know, like, you tell me yours and I’ll tell you.

Charity Munoz
00:03:16.880 – 00:03:19.200
You can tell.

You can.

You can start.

You can start with that one.

Clinton Munoz
00:03:19.380 – 00:04:14.580
You know the most recent one.

Yeah, Yeah, I was gonna say.

Okay.

So we, as our relationship has become more restored and more enjoyable, we’ve been like, okay, what should we do for fun?

Right?

And so we’ve had to, like, incorporate new ideas and new fun things, which has been great.

One of those things I won’t say anymore so you can have some stuff to talk about.

One of those things has been fishing, actually.

We moved back to California a year ago, and Charity was like, hey, I think I’m gonna go fishing with a friend.

And I was like, what?

Like, I found a girlfriend that I want to fish with.

And I was like, wow, that’s crazy cool.

And so she picked up ocean fishing with a friend.

I love to ocean fish.

Our boys all love ocean fishing.

And so this progressed into us buying a tandem Hobie kayak.

And so now we, like, are like, on date night or date day, we, like, find the best.

She has a fishing app.

She, like, searches like, okay, what are the best four hour window of fishing?

And we’ll buy live bait.

She’s like, learned how to hook a mackerel or a sardine through the nose.

Willow Weston
00:04:14.740 – 00:04:15.500
Oh, my gosh.

Clinton Munoz
00:04:15.500 – 00:05:28.420
So this week I know every guy’s like, wow, bro, you have it made.

And I’m like, just push through infidelity and brokenness.

And your marriage can be this great too.

Okay?

But yeah, so recently we went.

And here’s the thing, though, Willow.

I wish I could say, like, oh, my gosh, I’m the perfect husband.

And I love it when my wife and I tandem kayak fish.

But sometimes I get bossy, Willow.

I get, like, bossy out there.

I become like this, like, sailor Captain who’s like, you know, grab that, grab that.

Don’t touch that.

I’m the one steering.

You know what I mean?

And I totally ruin it for our dating experiences.

And so this week, I called my dad and I said, hey, dad, we’re gonna go do the tandem kayak thing.

And I’m just praying that above all else, it just goes well, like, Charity and I just have a good time, that I am peaceable, that I’m gentle, that I’m kind.

And that went really.

That went.

That date went so good, Willow.

For about an hour.

Okay.

Like, we had a really solid hour of, like, laughing and pictures and selfies.

And then, like, an hour later, the wind picked up, and Charity was like, we’re in a windstorm.

We couldn’t keep our line.

Like, we were being blown off course, and it wasn’t fun anymore, And I lost.

I lost my cool, and I got.

Willow Weston
00:05:28.420 – 00:05:28.940
Angry,.

Clinton Munoz
00:05:30.780 – 00:05:33.580
And then I had to go pee.

How do you go pee on a kayak, Willow?

Willow Weston
00:05:33.580 – 00:05:37.020
You know, it’s easier for you than it is for Charity, and I’ll tell you that.

Clinton Munoz
00:05:39.340 – 00:06:12.920
It was rough.

It was rough.

But all in all, we had a really good time.

We made some really fun memories of trying to figure out how to go pee on a kayak in the middle of, like, a windstorm, because, like, if I were to jump, typically you could just jump off and be off the side.

And if you do that in this setting, I think I would have flipped the kayak, and then it would have gone from bad to worse.

So we figured out.

We laughed a lot about it afterward.

We caught no fish.

That’s why our neighbor goes.

That’s why they call it fishing, not catching.

And I just wanted to punch him, you know?

But it was good.

It was good.

It was actually a really good time.

We laugh about it now, and.

And we are gonna hopefully go fishing again.

Are we gonna go fishing again?

Willow Weston
00:06:12.920 – 00:06:13.230
Yes.

Clinton Munoz
00:06:13.380 – 00:06:14.100
Okay.

There you go.

Willow Weston
00:06:14.100 – 00:06:32.060
Oh, my gosh.

That’s amazing.

You have to celebrate the wins you were able to, like, do be on your best behavior for one hour.

So maybe next time you could, like, inch up to an hour and a half.

Like, you know, next thing you know, you’re going to be able to last the whole day keeping your days.

Charity Munoz
00:06:32.060 – 00:06:38.220
Willow, you know, we did outside things that were out of our control, very stressful.

Clinton Munoz
00:06:38.220 – 00:06:39.020
We recovered.

Charity Munoz
00:06:39.020 – 00:06:39.500
Remember that?

Clinton Munoz
00:06:39.500 – 00:06:43.860
About another hour of bad.

After the second hour, we’re like, you know what?

We’ve recovered.

We’re having a good time.

Charity Munoz
00:06:43.860 – 00:06:44.280
Yeah.

Clinton Munoz
00:06:44.430 – 00:06:45.950
And we did recover and end well.

Willow Weston
00:06:45.950 – 00:06:52.750
It ended well, that’s awesome.

That’s good.

Yeah.

Would that have been yours, Charity, or do you have another one?

Charity Munoz
00:06:53.470 – 00:07:24.560
No, I feel like no.

It’s so good.

You know, it’s funny, that question of, like, funniest.

I’m always laughing when I’m with him.

I would just say, like, more.

So, like, I really couldn’t think of anything because, like, we’re always doing fun things.

So like, the only thing I could think of was that was really, really fun was we went to a local pizza shop, and the owners love us, and we had a great time.

And at the end of it, they were like, hey, do you guys want to close down the shop for us and we’ll do karaoke afterwards?

Clinton Munoz
00:07:24.560 – 00:07:27.920
We’re, like, with just the employees, all the employees and us invited.

Willow Weston
00:07:28.240 – 00:07:29.120
That’s awesome.

Charity Munoz
00:07:29.520 – 00:07:35.680
And then Clinton was like, I’ll help get, like, the people out of here.

And they’re like, no, no, no.

You don’t need to do that.

And he’s like, no, no, no.

I’ll do it.

Clinton Munoz
00:07:35.680 – 00:07:36.400
They wanted him.

Charity Munoz
00:07:36.480 – 00:07:52.700
He became, like, a busser, and it was, like, the funniest thing ever.

But people were giving him their food because he just started acting like he was a busser.

So they started giving him all their drinks nights, and it was underdressed.

Oh, my gosh.

I was dying laughing.

But it was such a fun.

Clinton Munoz
00:07:52.700 – 00:07:53.580
It was a fun night.

Charity Munoz
00:07:53.580 – 00:07:54.220
Oh, man.

Willow Weston
00:07:55.340 – 00:07:56.540
How was karaoke?

Charity Munoz
00:07:57.180 – 00:07:57.940
Karaoke.

Clinton Munoz
00:07:57.940 – 00:08:05.020
She killed it.

I never knew that Charity and Mariah Carey have a lot in common, you know?

I just want to say it was amazing.

Charity Munoz
00:08:05.340 – 00:08:25.950
I think the workers there thought we were more entertaining, but it was still.

It was still a great time.

Reminded me of our honeymoon, because it was actually.

We were celebrating our 13th wedding anniversary, and.

And on our honeymoon, we actually did karaoke.

And so he got.

He sang one of the songs that we sang on our honeymoon.

It was just like, a really cool, fun, like, moment.

Willow Weston
00:08:27.150 – 00:08:32.150
I love that.

Well, Rob and I have had a lot of funny dates go wrong, but.

Charity Munoz
00:08:32.150 – 00:08:32.990
One of our first.

Willow Weston
00:08:33.070 – 00:09:33.410
When we were dating, not married dates, we went to this.

There’s this place called Lakewood where we live, where you can go.

It’s connected to the college in town.

You can rent kayaks and canoes and whatever.

And so we rent a canoe, and I’m thinking, oh, this is precious.

We’re just gonna have this, like, romantic canoe ride, like, on the lake, and it’s gonna be awesome.

And I’m with this guy I’m into, and so he told me to get in the front of the canoe.

And he was in the back.

And Rob rode in college, who’s on the rowing team.

And that plays a role in a very similar to your.

Your story.

I’m thinking we’re just gonn romantic time.

And he just starts, like, pick it up.

Like, he’s yelling like starburs.

Or I don’t even know, like, what the size of the boat.

I don’t even know.

I didn’t.

I was like, starboard.

I don’t know what starboard is.

I don’t know what you’re even talking about.

And he’s like, faster.

And I mean, I was almost in tears.

Charity Munoz
00:09:33.410 – 00:09:33.890
Like, this.

Willow Weston
00:09:33.890 – 00:09:59.100
I’m not having fun.

You’re being intense.

Where.

Where are we racing to?

Where.

Where do we have to get, like.

Anyways, it was really good learning lessons, but.

But I’m like, bro, that was not like, that.

Wasn’t it?

You know?

So he’s since chilled out and.

But he’s very, like, that athletic, competitive spirit where I’m not at all.

And so dates teach us things, don’t they?

Don’t they teach us things in marriage?

Clinton Munoz
00:09:59.500 – 00:10:01.700
I just appreciate Rob so much right now.

Charity Munoz
00:10:01.700 – 00:10:10.800
You know, the best part is, like, I was picturing the Notebook, you know, and they’re like, on that.

Beautiful.

Like, oh, yeah, geese are there.

Clinton Munoz
00:10:10.800 – 00:10:11.920
You know, it’s beautiful.

Charity Munoz
00:10:12.000 – 00:10:15.960
And even when it’s raining, it’s so beautiful and romantic.

And it was, like, completely.

Clinton Munoz
00:10:15.960 – 00:10:22.080
That’s why it’s called Hollywood.

Okay, no one have done that.

I don’t care if you’re Ryan Gosling or not.

Like, no, I don’t know who that was.

Is that him?

Willow Weston
00:10:22.880 – 00:11:13.440
Oh, my gosh.

I love that movie, though.

Okay, you guys, let’s get serious, because we want to have a conversation that hopefully reaches into people’s real lives in their homes and their families, their marriages.

And you guys and I are doing kind of this collab, which is really fun, where we’re releasing podcasts on both of our podcasts on this idea of can broken things really be restored?

And I love that we’re talking about this.

That’s like, my heartbeat.

Your heartbeat.

So this is super fun.

And for people who didn’t listen five years ago and don’t have connection with you guys and your story.

Like, I would love to just start with how you guys personally experience brokenness in your marriage and how have you experienced restoration?

I know that’s like, you could talk about it for five hours, but if you can give us the kind of wide sweeping this is what happened, and then we can, like, walk from there.

Clinton Munoz
00:11:14.080 – 00:12:58.880
Yeah, yeah, I can start it and then you can pick up.

Yeah, I mean, the.

Our.

Our brokenness story kind of starts with the brokenness that I brought into our relationship.

Pornography, for me, became just a vice early on.

I was about 11 years old when I started really struggling with that being a weekly and then turned like a daily habit throughout high school.

That continued into college.

That continued college had a lot more sexual brokenness that took place as well in relationships, outside of relationships.

And so when we got married, I mean, I met Charity and I knew that we wanted to have this faith based relationship.

We wanted God to be the center of our relationship early on.

But I also did not want to lose this incredible woman that I was dating.

And so I definitely minimized my struggle with pornography.

I think part of me even probably believed that, like, man, I’m not going to struggle anymore.

We’re going to get married, we’re going to engage in sex.

I don’t know if we can say that on the podcast, but.

Right.

We’re going to engage in intimacy.

And it’s like all these things.

And I was so excited, like, oh, this is going to leave my life once.

Once we can engage intimately.

And that didn’t happen, Willow.

And I minimized my own struggle.

I even acted out with things before our marriage.

But I brought this whole, whole story of brokenness into our relationship, and that continued while we were married.

Didn’t realize that I was probably going to still use that coping mechanism well into marriage.

Marriage is hard.

And so as marriage became difficult, even our first year of marriage, intimacy wasn’t everything I thought it was going to be.

I had other stresses in life, financial stress, things like that.

And all intimacy, being even just like being known was hard.

And so I ran back to my struggle addiction and hid that from Charity initially.

Didn’t tell her that, man, I’m really struggling back again.

And so our marriage kind of blew up when Charity found out everything.

Willow Weston
00:12:59.200 – 00:13:00.880
Yeah, yeah.

Charity Munoz
00:13:00.880 – 00:15:02.060
So, yeah, definitely broken.

I would say what ended up happening from there was his brokenness opened up a brokenness in me that was really, I feel like has had always been there and it got amplified.

And so we always talk about how unhealed wounds, when you’re going through trauma, get revealed in current wounds.

And so I am now broken, not only over our marriage, but just broken and being utterly revealed in ways that I didn’t even know and triggered and just traumatized and just really, I mean, yeah, utter broken and.

And I mean, there’s a lot to the story, but what ended up happening is Clinton got a lot of help and healing.

I got a lot of help in healing and in that the Lord really did a work.

And what I love that you said about brokenness to being restored, that is our ministry verse.

And I want to read it because I just think it is so powerful because it’s a promise.

And during the season of my life, I held onto promises from the Lord because they were the only thing that I knew my foundation would not get it rocked upon.

And I knew that I needed a strong Foundation.

And first Peter 5, 10 says, and after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

And when I read, when I read that, I believed it.

It wasn’t like I didn’t say, oh, that’s a cute verse.

No, like, his word became bread, it became life, it became everything that I needed, water to my soul.

I read that verse and I said, God, you speak truth, you speak life.

And I’m going to believe that for not only me, but I’m going to believe that for our marriage.

And that’s what he did.

Willow Weston
00:15:03.100 – 00:15:28.420
There’s so many things I want to ask you, but before I ask you follow up questions to all that, you guys, there are people listening who need to believe that for themselves.

Can you read that charity again?

And if, if you’re listening and you need to believe, restoration is possible today.

We just want to start this podcast out by reading these words over you and grab onto them and hold on to them and believe that they’re promised for you today.

Charity Munoz
00:15:29.380 – 00:16:32.540
Yes.

And after you, listener, have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, the God who created the heavens and the earth, who created you, I’m adding here, but I want you to feel it.

Who has called you, listener, to his eternal glory in Christ, he will himself restore, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

He’s not talking about your neighbor.

He’s not talking about us special people.

He’s talking about you.

He’s not talking about a specific person.

He is talking to you, who is listening.

And I, I just want to say also, like, I believe that.

Just believe.

Believe his word.

Believe that his word is true, it’s trustworthy, that you can hold on to it, that his promises are never failing.

I also read that today that you can rely on him because his promises and his truth is unfailing because he loves you.

Willow Weston
00:16:33.900 – 00:17:48.340
Thank you, guys.

One of the things that I think is interesting that you brought up and I talk about this a lot that, you know, you’re two people who collided.

Your w collided.

You had a wounded collision, right?

Like Clint, you brought in wounds that you sort of thought would go away, which I think is a fascinating common belief that people don’t talk about.

You kind of thought like, oh, this way that I’ve coped with issues will go away because I found my person and now, like, she’s gonna fill all of that.

And we don’t, we don’t think like, as Christians, we’re like, no, like, God fills the.

The, you know, God shaped hole in my heart.

He’ll fill it all.

And I’m getting married.

But we do kind of think, like, some of our stuff that we turn to will go away once we get married.

And I’m hoping you can talk about that a little bit because not only does it seem like a common belief that we all have, not just men, and not just with pornography, but definitely with pornography, but also recognizing that you do that then requires you to go a bit deeper and go, no, what is actually what was actually causing me to turn to porn or what was actually causing me to fulfill my emotional and spiritual needs in all these other ways.

So can you speak to us a little bit about that?

Clinton Munoz
00:17:49.300 – 00:19:19.200
Yeah, totally.

So glad you pointed that out.

It’s true.

It’s.

It’s a widespread misconception.

And the reality is you’re spot on.

Well, like, there is a brokenness that takes place.

So many guys are reaching out all the time to restore to more, and they’re saying, hey, how do I get rid of pornography?

And so often we want to.

We want to omit the behavior, we want to remove the behavior, but we don’t understand that.

There’s probably a deep brokenness that we found that this behavior fixes temporarily.

And that’s the problem with pornography is it works so well.

It makes most people feel seen and loved and cared for and enough and adequate and sufficient.

And so what happened early on in my life is I discovered, oh, wow, pornography fills this void now.

Well, I couldn’t have verbalized that to you until, like, years of recovery work and therapy and counseling and books and podcasts.

But it took that journey of like, wow, what is going on underneath the surface?

What if pornography truly is symptomatic?

What if pornography is a symptom of something else that I’m, that I’m doing and that I’m broken in?

And so it did take work to understand, oh, what’s going on.

But I thought, oh, getting married is going to Fix that.

Because if pornography tells me that I’m wanted, well, marriage is the fulfillment of me being wanted so much that charity is going to commit to a covenant relationship.

If pornography offers me being seen and there’s a vulnerability in physical intimacy, well, I’m going to marry Charity.

So now we’re going to be physically intimate, and it’s going to be fantastic.

It’s going to take care of that.

And you just go down the list and it checks that box.

It checks that box.

So I get how guys assume that.

I get how they come to that conclusion.

Charity Munoz
00:19:19.520 – 00:19:21.080
And to interrupt really quick.

Clinton Munoz
00:19:21.080 – 00:19:21.600
Go ahead.

Charity Munoz
00:19:21.920 – 00:19:32.990
The belief of that we were told, too, is like, you can have unlimited sex when you get married.

So you’re, you know, you won’t be pornography anymore.

You’ll just have a wife that you’ll be using.

Clinton Munoz
00:19:33.390 – 00:19:37.550
Yeah, that’s baffling.

Like, I just.

The way you worded that, I just.

Willow Weston
00:19:37.550 – 00:20:27.850
Was like, I’m sitting back.

We’re gonna have a fun date right now.

We’re gonna have a fun time right now.

No, no, no, I.

The way you worded it is genius because that is sometimes how women feel, right?

Yeah.

They feel like, oh, am I just like.

You’re like, just for your use your purposes.

Right.

Like, without connection or whatever.

This is bringing up this topic, though, of maybe we don’t realize it.

We get married, and maybe this is kind of a culprit in a lot of marriages where we think, oh, this person’s gonna fill needs unconsciously, we’re thinking they are going to fill some needs for us.

And then when they’re not not filled, then we’re disappointed in the marriage.

Like, I love, there’s this.

I have a counselor friend.

Charity Munoz
00:20:27.850 – 00:20:28.210
He.

Willow Weston
00:20:28.210 – 00:21:03.140
And I wish I had a whiteboard right now, but he draws the word expectations and way under it on a piece of paper, he draws reality.

And the difference between those is our disappointment when our expectations are way up here and then our reality is down here.

We’re so disappointed.

And I think that’s what happens a lot in marriage.

And then it starts to be like, well, you’re not who you said you were, or you’re not filling my needs.

So I’m going to turn to someone else who’s at work, who’s going to emotionally fill my needs or whatever.

So, like, high expectations for another person to fill.

Talk to us a little bit about that.

Charity Munoz
00:21:03.940 – 00:21:04.420
Yes.

Clinton Munoz
00:21:04.580 – 00:21:41.930
You’re spot on.

I love that.

That’s exactly what I was thinking.

And when you said it, what I thought of is, unfortunately, the church doesn’t give us realistic expectations for intimacy in marriage, for what a relationship should look like, for how intimate is.

Intimacy is hard to build.

Not intimacy sexual, but I mean, intimacy, like, really into me, you see?

Yeah, right.

Letting a person see me, all the junk, all the things, my.

My bad breath in the morning, like, all those things.

And, like, it’s very vulnerable.

And so all of a sudden, you’re like, oh, wow, what are the expectations?

And how do we get to.

Right.

Expectations.

Because we both were set up kind of for failure.

Charity Munoz
00:21:41.930 – 00:21:42.330
Yeah.

Clinton Munoz
00:21:42.330 – 00:21:47.650
On so many levels.

Not only just sexually, but on so many levels.

Yeah, we were kind of set up for failure.

Charity Munoz
00:21:47.650 – 00:24:13.140
Yeah.

I would love to share my story of that.

So what ended up happening for me was I remember being really upset with God.

And I remember exactly where I was.

I remember being in my car.

Clinton, actually, he was in recovery, and he had just relapsed.

And I was so mad.

And so I left angrily.

I was bawling, and I went up to this mountain, and I’m just so angry at the Lord, and just, like, broken and just like, Lord, how could you?

And I remember just going off, and I was like, how could you?

You’ve seen everything that I’ve gone through as a kid.

Like, divorced parents, abusive boyfriends, molested by my mom’s boyfriend, friends in this.

In high school.

And, you know, just going off on all the trauma.

And I’m like, I thought, Lord, that you would have at least given me a husband who would treat me differently than everybody else has.

Because everyone else, Lord, has betrayed me.

Everyone else has hurt me.

And I really thought, Lord, that you were going to give me somebody who wasn’t going to hurt me.

And in that moment, I just felt the spirit say to me, lean into me.

Because even though all those other people have failed you, I haven’t.

I haven’t betrayed you.

I’ve been here the whole time.

Even though you have ran away, I have been here.

I’ve wiped every tear.

I’ve kept every tear.

I’ve been near to the brokenhearted.

And I just remember in that moment being like, oh, my gosh, God, I am done putting my trust, my faith, thinking that Clint’s going to be the savior of my life.

Because I can’t count on Clint’s track record anymore.

He’s a sinner.

He’s a human.

He’s flesh.

He is going to disappoint me.

It’s just.

It is what it is, regardless if it’s infidelity, pornography, or if it’s just if he blows up in anger like he is a human and he has flesh and a sinner just like I am, and he’s going to let me down.

And in that moment, I felt the Lord say, put your hope and your faith and your track record in me, because I will not fail you.

Look at my promises.

Lean into me.

Hear me.

Let me comfort you.

Let me be the one to comfort you.

Let me be the one to fill all the holes.

Let me be the one to heal you and be the same savior that everyone else can’t be, because they’re going to let you down and have let you down.

And in that moment, that changed me,.

Willow Weston
00:24:15.140 – 00:24:55.840
You guys are years later where not only do you testify that God has restored you, and I know you don’t.

You don’t mean that to mean you’re perfect, but he’s brought restoration and healing into your life.

He’s now using you in your message to bring restoration into other people’s lives and talk to us about what that restoration required.

Because there are people listening today who are in marriages, whether it’s because of pornography or betrayal or other issues, and they don’t.

They are not sure that restoration is possible or even where to begin.

So for you guys, what did you learn about it?

What did it require of you?

Clinton Munoz
00:24:56.560 – 00:26:20.060
Yeah, that’s a great question.

Well, I think the first, there’s a few different starting points based off the relationship and where it’s at and kind of how much damage has been done or where the people’s hearts are at.

But we were.

We were maybe not unique, but we were in a category of Christian couples that go, hey, we have.

We know that God is the answer, first of all.

He has to be that cornerstone in our relationship.

And so the first thing is really, are you willing to trust in the Lord, his promises?

Are you willing to surrender this pain to him and go, God, I want to see what you.

What you want to do with my heart.

So really, that’s a.

That’s one of the keys for sure, is a spiritual aspect of surrender.

The other thing is really owning your brokenness and really being able to go, okay, this.

I’m broken, and I need.

I need some work done in my heart.

I need.

I need some healing.

I need some awareness.

I need some education for my own personal life.

What you have in this situation is charity.

At some point, being willing to go, this has really hurt me.

And not live in denial, not live in like, oh, this is Clint’s problem.

When Clint gets better, our marriage will get better.

If you want to see restoration.

It takes both individuals saying, I need help.

I had to get help.

I had to go to recovery.

I had to go to somebody who had expertise to help me walk that road of healing, of understanding what is beneath the behavior.

Charity had her own road of healing from the trauma of betrayal.

And there was a lot there.

And then in addition to that, I know I’m going off.

Pause me at any point.

Willow, if you want to keep.

Charity Munoz
00:26:20.060 – 00:26:20.700
No, you’re great.

Clinton Munoz
00:26:20.700 – 00:27:32.240
The other thing I would say is that you have to be willing to then understand what your spouse is also going through.

We get that.

The individual recovery road sometimes.

I mean, obviously it’s super important every time, but sometimes it’s isolating.

And a lot of times there’s an accidental gap or a chasm that kind of gets formed between the spouses.

We see this all the time in recovery, where.

Let’s take the guy in my shoes.

Has been in recovery for years, but he’s never, ever taken a step towards understanding what his spouse is going through and has gone through because of his choices.

And we have wives at the same time, in her own recovery groups for years, but she’s never taken a step towards understanding what her husband has gone through, why it was there in the first place, what his heart needed.

And so I do think what we believe is at some point, you have to turn towards each other and go, well, what do you need?

And what do you.

Have you gone through and what’s your journey and what is trauma?

Betrayal.

Trauma specifically.

And what does sexual addiction look like and how’s it formed?

And as you get to understand each other, then you can actually encourage each other’s journey and learn ways to communicate in healthy ways, to rebuild safety, to rebuild trust, and to start experiencing restoration in your relationship.

Willow Weston
00:27:33.040 – 00:29:06.610
It’s so messy, though.

Even listening, it’s.

It’s mind blowing to me, because you had your own pain, Clint and Charity, you had incredible pain that you brought into this, and his betrayal of you triggered all your past pain.

And clearly there was pain that was leading you to that betrayal.

So not only are you dealing with, like, now the pain that.

Well, you’re dealing with the pain of your past that you brought into it, but the pain now that you’ve caused the person you love.

And so it’s not like you go, oh, let’s try to work this out, and it feels better next Wednesday.

So how.

Right.

But, like, I think a lot of people give up hope.

And I’m not sitting here prescribing that every marriage hold on.

Because there’s very unique situation.

So that’s not what I’m saying.

But a lot of people maybe give up in the process because it gets so messy at first.

Sorting out.

Oh, you just like filtering out what is, what is, what I caused versus what was laying dormant.

Versus.

I mean, it’s just very messy.

So talk to us about kind of what to expect or how important it is to have patience or do you need community and other people helping you sort things out and helping you know when to hold on and not give up hope.

Because part of, part of untangling the mess is versus naming it.

I mean, talk to us a little bit about all of that.

Charity Munoz
00:29:07.330 – 00:29:17.970
Yeah, yeah, it is messy.

I mean, I can share with you as some very lots of funny moments that were also a lot of pain.

Clinton Munoz
00:29:17.970 – 00:29:19.810
Actually funny.

I was like, are they actually funny?

Charity Munoz
00:29:20.450 – 00:29:41.910
What I was gonna say was there was a moment when Clinton came home from therapy.

And I think it’s funny because he had just came home from really intense therapy session.

And I’m in the kitchen getting dinner ready and he pulled, he sits at the T table and he pulls out a bag.

Hot Cheetos.

And then he pulls out chocolate.

And then he pours a glass of wine.

And I think it’s two o’, clock, like on a Saturday or like some, you know, maybe a Friday.

Clinton Munoz
00:29:41.910 – 00:29:45.710
2 O’ clock might be generous.

Might have been, might have been new, might have been noon.

Charity Munoz
00:29:45.790 – 00:29:56.390
And I look at him and I’m like, what are you feeling?

And because there’s something going on that you are trying to numb right now.

Clinton Munoz
00:29:56.390 – 00:30:07.210
I made my decision that I wasn’t running back to pornography.

I was no longer going to use sexual to cope with pain or uncomfortability.

But I hadn’t figured out if hot Cheetos couldn’t fill that void.

Willow Weston
00:30:07.210 – 00:30:09.290
Right.

Instead of hot chicks.

Hot Cheetos.

Clinton Munoz
00:30:09.930 – 00:30:13.570
Right, There you go.

That’s.

That’s a book.

That’s the title.

Willow Weston
00:30:13.570 – 00:30:16.090
That’s your next book.

You’re welcome.

You can pay me.

Clinton Munoz
00:30:18.890 – 00:31:44.600
Hot Cheetos didn’t you know?

And then maybe a glass of wine will work.

No, it didn’t work.

Maybe.

Maybe a movie.

No, I didn’t work.

So yeah, there’s a process and it is, it is so hard to know.

I think so many times it was Jesus that kept us.

I mean, for me, I was going to work hard to stay in the relationship.

It was Jesus that kept charity in the relationship.

And I think that’s really the betrayed spouse’s own conviction is, you know, when because she had every reason, biblically, to leave and to walk out.

And we have that with a lot of couples that we work with, and.

And we get it.

You know, sometimes the guy’s heart is unwilling to change, and there is a hardness there, and there’s a pride that says, this is fine.

It’s not a problem.

You shouldn’t be hurt by this.

The trauma you’re experiencing isn’t real.

That’s so unbiblical.

You need to stay.

And there’s a lot of manipulation going on in those relationships.

But Charity comes back to the fact that she did see my heart changing.

She saw me pursuing freedom in a way that I’d never pursued it before.

And I think so often we guide couples to look at the progress.

Not perfection, but the progress that’s being made.

And if we take a step back and we step out of this moment of pain, there is progress.

We can see progress over a month or two months or six months.

And I think that was the hope that we were constantly holding on to.

Where we.

Where we were.

Where we.

Where we were, where we wanted to be.

That didn’t sound right, but you know what I mean.

No, but we also weren’t where we were.

And so it’s that understanding of, like, okay, we’re not where we want to be, but we’re also not where we were.

Willow Weston
00:31:44.600 – 00:31:45.040
Yeah.

Clinton Munoz
00:31:45.040 – 00:31:55.130
And we kept going.

Okay.

So if we continue this path, this journey, it’s probably going to keep looking better.

But so much of it was holding on to hope, getting the right people around us that were.

Charity Munoz
00:31:55.210 – 00:31:56.250
You have to have community.

Clinton Munoz
00:31:56.490 – 00:32:53.630
Oh, yeah.

That had hope for us.

I mean, sometimes someone else’s hope for you is all you have.

I mean, so many times it’s somebody saying, I know this isn’t going to define you forever.

One of our lines is, this is a chapter of your story, but it is not the whole story.

The story doesn’t end here.

It doesn’t have to.

It can be a really, really.

And that’s what makes a great story, to be honest, is the pain.

The moment you’re reading a book and you’re crying over chapter because you like, oh, my gosh, can it get any darker than this?

And then it does.

And you’re like, oh.

But then there’s that silver lining, that sliver of hope, that ray of sunlight, and you’re like, oh, maybe.

And then all of a sudden, it gets better and better and better, and you’re like, oh, my gosh.

Okay.

And what we can tell you is, on the other Side, the marriage is more beautiful than we ever thought possible.

Like, so worth it.

Like, not even a question.

Would we go through it again?

Yes, again.

And then again and then again and then again.

Because what we’ve experienced on the other side is worth it every single time,.

Willow Weston
00:32:55.470 – 00:33:34.760
You guys.

I mean, that’s really good to remind us to look at the progress.

And I think there’s days, and you even mentioned a little bit ago that there was a.

There was relapse.

And on days where you’re kind of losing hope, like, you see going backwards, how do you kind of go, okay, we went backwards here, but we aren’t actually going backwards in our actual direction.

Like, we might have gone back a few steps, but we’ve been.

We’ve moved miles from where we.

Where we started.

So what do you do on a day like that where you.

Your spouse hurts you, you see a relapse, you see it going backwards by.

By some steps.

Charity Munoz
00:33:35.960 – 00:35:51.720
So again, and I’ve been there.

I remember, like, and truly, like, slip and relapse, specifically for a betrayed spouse makes you feel like you’re at square one again.

I mean, I felt that way when we talked to women we’re.

And wives we’re coaching all the time.

It’s.

I feel like we’re, you know, back at square one, and I have to remind them that they’re not.

And the reason being is I’m like, hey, because you have tools today that you didn’t have when you were, you know, when you started this thing.

You now have names to feelings.

You now understand what’s going on in your brain and his brain.

You now know what is working, what’s not working, what is your scripture, you know, you know how to ground yourself.

You have boundaries, you have community.

You know, I’m constantly reminding them, like, you are not at all where you were back then, and neither is your spouse, you know, and yes, it sucks.

I’m not going to negate the feeling of, like, a setback because the pain sucks, the feelings suck, the circumstance suck, all of it sucks.

And the pain’s real, and the tears are real, and the pain hurts.

And to grieve that, I tell them, like, grieve it, be sad over it, mourn over it, talk to people about it, heal in a way that is actually going to progress you towards growth.

There’s a difference between staying stuck in the pain and then just put.

Putting a band aid over it and hoping that it goes away, which is what I was doing with all the things I had talked about, right?

And Then when something happened, everything.

Oh, everything spills out.

I’m still bleeding.

That cut’s still there.

And so now when you are going through hard moments, we’re not putting a band aid on it.

We are healing and moving forward and having what we love.

We love this word.

It’s called post traumatic growth, and it means you are healing and transforming into becoming who God’s called you to be, going somewhere where God is calling you to go, to be transformed, to become who he’s called you to be so that you can do the things that he’s called you to do.

And so I really.

We really just try and help and reframe for couples and spouses, because it does.

It really does feel like they’re back at square one.

You feel so defeated, but in reality, they’re really not.

And they’ve grown so much.

Clinton Munoz
00:35:51.800 – 00:35:57.210
What I heard you say is, like, your feelings are valid and they’re real, but they might not be based on truth.

Willow Weston
00:35:57.210 – 00:35:57.650
Yeah.

Clinton Munoz
00:35:58.850 – 00:36:13.570
There’s a way to process your feelings and give validity to them and go, hey, but is that the reality?

Yeah, right?

Or is that true to your situation?

Or can we shed some light on maybe how you want an added perspective to this situation?

Willow Weston
00:36:19.010 – 00:38:38.720
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I’ve had several friends and people that I know who experience something tumultuous in their marriage, like a betrayal or, you know, an emotional affair or what have you.

Usually there’s sort of like a slow road to that.

It could be like, you know, they stopped connecting, stop sleeping in the same bedroom.

I don’t know.

There’s all sorts of things.

I don’t need to go into the details.

But the point is, is what I’ve seen is my friends who didn’t do the work and just thought, I hope this gets better somehow.

Like, I hope, like, he hurt me.

He knows he hurt me.

I hope.

I hope this just sort of, like, gets better.

He confessed.

He said, sorry.

What I’m getting at is, like, the blind can’t lead the blind.

Like, sometimes I think Christians, and I’m not trying to blow stuff up here.

But I think Christians think, like, if I just confess the sin and if I pray about it with God and I start going to church again, it’s gonna get better.

Our marriage is gonna get better.

And I’m a little like, if I even just take your guys’s story and I go, okay, you, charity, can’t actually, like, unpack all of your childhood trauma and abuse and the things you experienced by yourself and actually figure that out.

And I don’t know that, like, yes, prayer is helpful and God is with you, but there’s some big stuff that you’re bringing to the table here, and you can’t actually teach you, like, you.

Or give you tools.

Like, you can’t give yourself tools.

Charity Munoz
00:38:38.720 – 00:38:39.040
You.

Willow Weston
00:38:39.040 – 00:39:12.220
You gotta go get tools from someone who has them.

Right?

And same thing with you, Clint.

Like having somebody ask.

Hey, like, ask you deeper questions on why you were turning to poor in the first place.

So talk to us about that, because I think there’s this sort of myth in some Christian circles where it’s like, oh, God’s gonna restore our marriage.

All we have to do is pray and go to church.

And really, like, what these marriages need is they need help, they need tools, they need therapy.

They need something beyond themselves.

Like, you can’t do it on your own type thing.

Charity Munoz
00:39:12.710 – 00:39:13.150
You can’t.

Clinton Munoz
00:39:13.150 – 00:42:54.910
Oh, I’ll go.

I’ll go deep real fast with you, Willow.

And I think typically that is there because we don’t want to be vulnerable.

We don’t want to create a story of brokenness.

And I think that’s the problem.

I. I think a lot of Christians would say, okay, yeah, it’s good to get advice on this.

And there’s that.

And I think they would get that.

We’re all parts of the body and we all offer different things, whether encourage the church and build up the church and equip each other.

But what we’re talking about is something beyond, like, hey, I want to get better at my finances.

Everyone would say, oh, if you want to get better at finances, go find a course.

Your church might offer one.

You know, do this.

Get these apps, and you’re going to solicit all this advice.

You’re going to even go find a professional who is, like, trained at financial planning.

And if you.

If you’ve been blessed to have extra resources, you’re going to get a.

You’re going to get an app, and you’re going to get a financial advisor, and you’re going to get a retirement account, and you’re going to seek advice.

No one’s like, oh, just use, use, you know, AI for that.

Maybe they are, but.

Right.

But the point is that there’s typically the use of other Christians in those fields to get better at stewarding those things.

But what we’re talking about is sin.

And what we’re talking about is this, these things that we feel.

If anybody really knew the real me, they’re going to hate me.

They’re not going to want me around in church.

They’re not going to want me as the small group leader for the high school group.

I can’t help in the children’s ministry anymore.

But if I struggle with sexual sin, if my marriage is falling apart and I’m worried about from a female, my husband looking at pornography and it’s breaking me.

Sometimes women bring that up and the other women are so silent in those groups like those, those Bible study groups where it’s like, I shared that and no one shared anything.

So maybe I shouldn’t worry about it or maybe I shouldn’t talk about it.

And I think that it’s so vulnerable and it’s so close to home that we’re like, I’m not sure about other people’s perspectives of how this is going to go.

And it feels.

I mean, add to what I’m saying, I think there’s that belief.

I’ll talk for the men, the men that believe what you’re saying.

I just want to pray it away.

Pray and have it go away.

I can’t tell you how many men tried that for years.

And the reason they did that was not because of a theological standpoint on how, oh, the Bible says, I just confessed my sins to one, I should be healed.

Well, what?

Yeah, but then they struggled the next week.

So something wasn’t wrong with the text.

Something was wrong with the way they understood the text because it was meant to be.

I’m going to go and I’m going to work on this with my brothers, with my brothers who are also struggling.

And I’m going to rely on the body.

I’m going to do what it talks about.

When the Bible talks about being transparent and casting and helping other people carry your burdens and understanding that there’s probably a discipleship and an undertaking.

We have to go with habitual sins, understand what’s underneath those things and being willing to take those to people that we trust.

But, but I think that men are just terrified.

A lot of us have low self confidence.

A lot of us are scared.

A lot of us are achieving X, Y and Z in the world, because we believe that if you just see those things, you won’t see the real me, but the real me is broken and the real me is scared, and the real meal feels insufficient and inadequate in so many areas.

And I think we just have to start talking about those as men, because we all feel that way.

And if we all showed up in this real state of needing Jesus, like, that’s where Paul’s at.

Paul’s like, wretched man that I am, who is going to save me from this body of death?

And how many Christians are.

How many men are really saying that?

Oh, by the way, my name’s Clint.

I’m a wretched body.

I’m a wretched soul.

Like, I just need Jesus on the daily.

You know, my theme song is I need the every hour.

I think that’s what’s missing is this authentic need for Jesus that I think we have to get to a point where we are desperate for Jesus.

We rely on the.

On the Holy Spirit every day to lead us.

And I think, unfortunately, it takes a lot of people hitting their rock bottom to get there.

Willow Weston
00:42:57.150 – 00:44:53.790
You know, I. I think what I appreciate most is that you’re leading by example, even saying that, Clint.

Like, there’s not very many men who I interview on this podcast who get on and say, you know what?

I’m terrified.

I’m insecure.

I don’t want to be vulnerable.

Like, and I have issues, you know, So I really appreciate that you’re leading the example on that, because other men will look at the courage that it takes and see why it’s worth it, because they see that it’s been worth it in your life.

And I don’t know.

I absolutely believe, like, you know, the whole point is, like, we’re sinners in need of a savior.

Like, we have brokenness and we need a healer.

And I don’t know why we’re sitting around acting like it’s just all going to go away when we have a God just, like, come to me.

Like, I want to.

I want to restore your brokenness.

But in our marriages, even, and we do it, you know, outside of marriage, too.

But to kind of act like, oh, like, let’s just keep this quiet.

It’s going to go away.

It’s going to get better.

I think we need help outside of ourselves.

And so whether that looks like turning to people like you who help people who’ve walked through sexual addiction and betrayal and pornography, whether it’s turning to a therapist or your pastor or some of your best friends, like, we need other people to.

Like, you guys talked about people to hold up hope, but also to hold our hand and walk us forward towards that progress that we want to see.

And sometimes we need their spiritual advice and guidance and accountability and all of that.

So, you know, I know I could talk to you guys forever, but one of the things I’m really curious about is do you ever go back to that really messy time, kind of like when everything sort of exploded for you guys?

And do you ever wonder, like, man, what if?

What if I would have walked?

Charity Munoz
00:44:55.790 – 00:45:06.990
Yeah, it was my father in law, like, last week, maybe he.

He texted me a picture of me and Clint’s mom.

Willow Weston
00:45:07.090 – 00:45:07.250
And.

Charity Munoz
00:45:07.480 – 00:48:20.760
And it was actually in the season where everything blew up.

And, I mean, there was no more.

Like, I couldn’t hide anymore actually, like, because my body was keeping the score.

So people were actually coming up to me and saying, like, they were like, are you okay?

Because you don’t look okay.

And it’s okay if you need to tell us if there’s something going on inside of your home.

Because I drastically stopped eating, lost so much weight, became frail.

My hair, oh, my gosh, coming out in clumps.

Like, it was such a dark place in my life.

Like, I couldn’t keep it anymore.

Like, my body was shutting down, couldn’t work out.

You couldn’t do anything.

And.

And so I. I say that because the picture that he sent me sent me back there, and I was like, oh, my gosh, like, wow, look how far we have come.

And it just reminded me of, like, all the pain and all the hurt and just utterly broken and just, like, shattered and devastated I was, and in so much pain, so much hurt.

And I don’t think of it often.

Like, oh, man, what if we would have, you know, not been together?

But I would say the.

The enemy definitely tempted me with that over and over again.

Like, he said, like, oh, you don’t need him and you can do it.

Like, if Clinton was out, you know, for a couple hours, and then we’d be like, see, you could do this without him.

And I would say that if I actually think about it right now, like, man, you know what.

What would our life look like if we didn’t stay together?

Gosh, for me, personally, in our marriage, like, I’m so.

I would literally probably start just crying thinking of that because of seeing how good and faithful God has been in our story and in our marriage and the blessings we’ve been able to receive, not only in our ministry, but, like, me personally and the growth that I’ve had and the strength that I’ve been able to develop and the vision and the love for people and my love for Jesus and the people we’ve been able to bless and help, and our kids.

I mean, like, I grew up in a divorced parent, like, growing up in that.

And I remember thinking, like, wow, our kids may be that statistic.

And to know, like.

Like, wow, Lord, you restored parts of our story that were just so broken.

And our kids aren’t going to grow up in a divided household.

Like, and not only that, but with parents who love them and are confident and can show them.

Like, man, look at what happens when you surrender and allow God to just wreck you and meet you and heal you and you can find freedom.

And I just feel like we.

Man, like, we can just.

We can show our kids so many examples.

And we talk about sex all the time with them, and we talk about just, like, so much.

I mean, there’s so much fruit, Willa.

Like, there’s so much fruit, Willow, with all of the things that the Lord has blessed us from.

And I just.

I couldn’t even imagine, fathom, like, the blessings.

Yeah.

What that would have looked like.

It would.

Clinton Munoz
00:48:20.760 – 00:48:21.200
Yeah.

Charity Munoz
00:48:21.280 – 00:48:24.640
It’s scary.

It makes me sad of everything we’d miss out on.

Clinton Munoz
00:48:24.720 – 00:49:45.780
There was.

Yeah.

There was a moment, too, Willow, where we were at the store, and Charity kind of said something like that.

Like, oh, I.

You know, I don’t know.

I don’t know if we’re gonna make it.

I don’t know if I’m gonna stay.

I’m still on the fence.

And I don’t know if it was, like, I said it probably not very peaceably, but I was like, okay, well, just.

What.

You know, someone else will get the best version of me then, because I’m changing and I’m growing and I’m finding freedom.

And that really bothered her.

And I was, like, so happy that it did, selfishly.

But I just knew, like, I’m getting.

I’m changing.

Like, if you choose to stay, I’m changing.

And I know it’s not perfect, and I know that at this point, probably I had been, like, My journey was like, oh, I went three months of never looking at pornography.

Then I struggled, and I relapsed.

Then I went six months, and then I relapsed, and it was, like, longer stints.

I was struggling daily, if not more than one time a day in my.

In the height of my addiction.

And so now I was like, man, well.

Well, look like it’s Leaving my life.

Like, I’m having longer and longer stints of freedom than I’ve ever had, and I’m growing in mental perseverance and emotional awareness, and I’m growing and developing healthy habits and discipline and self control in all these areas.

And I.

And I would probably said that in spite, but I was so grateful that that made her angry, because she was like, well, I don’t want someone else to get the best version of Clint.

I remember her being like, well, no.

Heck no.

Like, someone’s not getting the best version of you.

I married you because I knew who you could be, and now you’re going to give that to somebody else.

Willow Weston
00:49:45.780 – 00:49:46.180
Yeah.

Charity Munoz
00:49:46.180 – 00:50:11.220
I didn’t want to have to go through all the pain just to leave.

I wanted to reap the result.

Like, that’s so not fair for somebody to not have to go through the pain and get all the beautiful things that I thought I was getting on our wedding day.

And I have received that tenfold.

Willow.

Like, I don’t.

I’m not just saying that, like, what I thought our marriage was going to be like, it has surpassed that now after so much healing and growth.

And again, please hear us.

Like, we get into arguments.

We’re.

Clinton Munoz
00:50:11.220 – 00:50:16.240
I was going to say there’s still.

There’s still.

I’m still promising that.

Like, I haven’t.

I haven’t gotten there yet.

So the best is still yet to come.

Charity Munoz
00:50:16.240 – 00:50:17.160
I’m still saying sorry.

Willow Weston
00:50:17.160 – 00:50:22.680
Oh, we know.

We heard about your date last week.

So we know.

You know, you guys aren’t perfect.

Clinton Munoz
00:50:23.640 – 00:50:26.440
We fight a lot more than just the wind in a kayak, but you know what I mean.

Willow Weston
00:50:26.440 – 00:51:12.820
Oh, I get it.

So do Rob and I.

There are people listening, and I just want to give you guys a moment as we come to a close here.

Give each of you a moment.

So, Charity, when you think about the woman listening who feels so broken in her marriage and doesn’t even know where to begin, like, I’d love for you to speak to her for a minute.

And Clint, if you think about the man who is feeling ashamed and afraid to be vulnerable with other people and tell them what he’s been up to and feels like he’s messed up his family, like, what would you want to say to him?

So, Charity, do you want to speak to her?

And, Clint, you can speak to him.

Charity Munoz
00:51:14.010 – 00:53:03.340
Yeah, I’d love to.

I’ll start.

Man.

Well, first of all, like, I just want you to know I know what you’re feeling, and I know the pain, and I know the hurt.

And I know just the hopelessness and fear and depression and anger that you have.

I felt it.

I get it.

I know it so, so well.

And I truly believe that God has so much more in store for you right now.

I believe that he is calling you to Him.

I believe that he wants to comfort you.

And I just would encourage you to just lean into him, to lead in to his promises, his verses that you would just.

That you would just start making notes on your phone and just start putting down all your favorite verses that the Lord is speaking to you with.

And then talk to someone.

Share with one person your pain.

And if you’re like Charity, there is nobody, nobody that I feel safe with.

Then continue to talk to the Lord.

And then pray.

Pray that God will have someone to come into your life, because I believe he can.

I believe that if they’re not in your life right now, they can show up in your life.

Maybe it’s a random Sunday service that you’re going to, and somebody comes up to you, and that’s the person you need to talk to and just have that courage to share with that person, because God doesn’t want you to do it alone.

And you’re not alone with him, but he also wants you to understand the church body and that there are safe people out there who want to carry your burdens with you, because you’re not meant to carry them alone.

And so I’m believing for you that you’re going to have a safe person that you’re going to be able to pray with, you’re going to be able to cry with, you’re going to be able to just share your pain with, and God is going to just use them to bless you.

And I’m really just believing that for you right now.

Clinton Munoz
00:53:03.830 – 00:53:08.630
Amen.

That’s good.

I’m gonna go, Willow.

Willow Weston
00:53:09.190 – 00:53:09.590
Sure.

Clinton Munoz
00:53:11.510 – 00:55:39.820
I think the thing I would tell these guys that are listening is very similar to what Charity shared to the wives.

And it’s.

Man, I get it.

I get it.

There’s so many things that can hold us back from experiencing freedom.

There’s fear.

There’s the belief that if someone.

If these guys, if these people really knew the real me, I would never be welcomed here.

I would never be welcomed in church.

I wouldn’t be welcomed in my small group, my Bible studies, the men that I’m around.

I wouldn’t be respected in the workplace.

My company would fail.

We owned companies at the time, and it was a mess, and there was so much fear.

The other thing that was present was this deep Deep, deep longing to be wanted and to be known and to belong and to stop looking over my shoulder.

And I just want you to know you don’t.

You don’t have to keep.

Keep that forever.

You don’t have to be controlled by this behavior.

I really believe that this behavior that you’re experiencing is because there are parts of you that are just broken.

And you.

And you haven’t experienced the true healer to come in and transform your heart and your mind and your life.

And there is freedom that can be attained.

There is a level of freedom and a level of peace that you’ve never experienced, that you can have in Jesus Christ and in his church.

And there are people, there are real men, not men that think their identity is in what they have or what they’ve achieved.

There are real men that understand they are broken and they would welcome you with open arms because they will say, I get it.

Me too.

I’ve struggled.

And it’s real.

And the struggle is real, but so is the freedom.

The struggle is real and the pain is real, but so is the promise.

And the isolation is real.

But.

But so is the.

The Holy Spirit who wants to guide you every minute of the day and remind you that you are enough and that you are chosen.

You are a child of the living God, that you have an inheritance that is way beyond you could ever even imagine.

And your purpose is real and your identity is real and you are a part of this body.

And sometimes it feels like you’re a broken part, but that’s not true.

That’s not who you are.

What you’ve done is not who you are.

What you struggle with is not who you are.

It’s not your identity.

And there is a freedom that cannot be fathomed waiting for you in Jesus and in his church if you’re willing to look for it and truly surrender the process of healing, for sure.

Willow Weston
00:55:41.260 – 00:56:09.180
Well, you guys are certainly testament that that broken things can be restored.

And I’m so grateful that you not only let God restore your life, but now you’re letting him purpose your life to help bring restoration into so many marriages.

So thank you for hopping into my marriage today and everyone who’s listening.

And I know that there’s gonna be people who wanna, like, hang out more with you guys and hear about your silly dates and also your amazing wisdom.

So how can they connect with you guys?

Charity Munoz
00:56:10.470 – 00:56:23.990
Yeah, you can follow us at Restored2More.

And that’s on everything.

So our website, Restored2More.com.

Our podcast and Instagram and all the things.

So come on over.

Willow Weston
00:56:25.350 – 00:56:27.590
Love it.

Thank you guys for being on today.

Charity Munoz
00:56:28.070 – 00:56:28.590
Thank you.

Clinton Munoz
00:56:28.590 – 00:56:30.550
Thank you.

Willow.

It has been such a joy.

Willow Weston
00:56:30.790 – 00:57:43.050
Friend, more than anything, I hope that you grabbed hold of some more hope today in believing that with Jesus restoration is possible in your marriage, in your friendships, in your body, in your mind, in your heart, wherever you need it most.

And I believe that God wants to come in and enter the mess.

He can not only handle it, he can heal it and he can purpose your pain for more restoration in the world.

And so please be encouraged to hold on to hope.

If you can’t hold on to hope today, maybe you can ask someone else to hold on to hope for you.

I hope that you keep colliding this week.

If you want more resources that build you up, make sure to go to our website at wecolide.net and go check out Clinton and Charity Munoz’s ministry and podcast and they have a course that can help you if your marriage has a experienced sexual brokenness and betrayal and sex addiction issues.

They have incredible ministry for you.

So check it out.

Keep colliding and I’ll catch you next week.