Motherhood Without the Shame: Learning to Trust Yourself and God with Therapist Heather Harrison

Willow (00:01.27)

Heather, it’s so good to have you on the podcast today.

Heather Harrison (00:04.748)

thank you, Willow. It’s good to be here.

Willow (00:08.043)

Yeah, I’m excited to have a conversation with you about motherhood and specifically about young moms. I know this is a huge passion of yours. I’m curious, just like out of the gate, how did this passion rise up in you to want to infuse hope and help and wisdom into young moms?

Heather Harrison (00:29.714)

You know, I think it comes from many different aspects Willow, but just as you asked me that question, I remember back as a mom of three young kids and I had three kids in three years and we were out in our cul-de-sac and we were as adults planning a beginning of summer party.

And as the adults talked about what we could do or not do, we kind of came to a plan and we were beginning to engage in, well, who was going to do what? And one of the dads turned to me and said, well, Heather, you’re at home all the time. What do you do anyway? Can’t you just plan the whole thing?

Willow (01:18.82)

wow.

Heather Harrison (01:20.418)

Yeah, and I, as an introvert, I tend to take those situations, walk away, feel frustrated, and then say, I wish I’d said. But for whatever reason, in that moment, I think probably God dropped these words down. And I just looked at him. And I said, Scott, I’m facilitating the emotional, mental,

Willow (01:31.65)

You

Heather Harrison (01:48.23)

physical and spiritual well-being of my kids and the kids in this neighborhood. What exactly do you do all day?

Willow (01:58.248)

Yikes, Heather!

Heather Harrison (01:58.468)

and it was just violence. And having come out of corporate America and paused the full-time job for a moment, I knew that and was experiencing that moms and parents, especially parents that choose to stay at home for some amount of time and raise their kids, they’re not seen.

And I just began to get really curious and really passionate about this role that God gives us, this unique role to be a mom to these kids and what it means to rear children. And it’s hard work, it’s rewarding work, but I think if you haven’t been on that side of it, a lot of society does not give it the credit that’s due to it.

Willow (02:57.902)

You work with people, you counsel people and I’m imagining that you have a lot of young moms that come into your office. What kind of pressures are you seeing them live under?

Heather Harrison (02:58.907)

and

Heather Harrison (03:06.513)

Thank

Heather Harrison (03:15.779)

You know, I saw this magazine clipping fairly recently and it was, you could just see kind of the upper half of a female’s torso and she had her hair was pretty and she had a nice shirt on. And then you flipped it to the next page and you could see the entire picture of her and she had on sweatpants and there were just multiple toys on her feet and two little kids crawling up her legs. And

That’s reality. And what I see these young mamas come in with is this, they just see that first picture of every other woman having it together, having the right stuff, doing the right thing, saying the right things. And they come from this place of shame, that somehow I’m not enough. And I see it over and over and over again.

I don’t know how to do it. I’m not equipped. I’m not enough. And what I see is this pattern. And of course I see it in other areas of life as well. But in motherhood, I think it’s so problematic of looking to the outside, comparing based only on what you see, and then coming up short. And the devastating impact on an already hard job

and a pretty lonely job at times as well.

And go ahead.

Willow (04:52.687)

go ahead, Heather.

Heather Harrison (04:54.661)

And what I want to say most to them is I want to encourage them to trust themselves and to trust God in the process of parenting.

Willow (05:10.382)

What does that look like? Because I’m rewinding back and wow, I mean, I have a 23 year old and a 20 year old and it definitely, I mean, it resonates. I often would go to bed at night and not feel like I was enough. Like, did I teach them enough? Did I hang out with them enough? You know, did I take them out of the house enough? Were we out of the house too much? I mean, all of these things that you are so hard on yourself every single night. But you know,

Heather Harrison (05:35.481)

Yes.

Willow (05:40.353)

I didn’t have the pressure of social media. I didn’t have, when my kids were little, we didn’t have Instagram, right? That makes me sound archaic, but the pressures that young moms are under is something else. It’s something that other generations have an experience where you’re constantly being bombarded by being able to see what other moms and their lives look like. And of course, everybody’s showing their best.

Heather Harrison (05:48.422)

Right.

Willow (06:07.586)

their best image online and not the poopy blowouts and the, you know, the fights with your husband and the lack of sleep and all the things that go down. So when you say you want women to trust themselves and trust God, how do they do that? Because I think even when you think about women being bombarded, they’re being bombarded with all this marketing to tell them not to trust themselves, but buy this product and…

Heather Harrison (06:16.034)

Mm.

Willow (06:34.946)

follow this influencer and do it exactly like this person and this philosophy and this way of parenting and disciplining and all the things. how does a woman know I can trust myself?

Heather Harrison (06:46.319)

Yeah, I mean, that’s a fantastic question. It’s a fantastic question. I’m just having a recent experience with this, throwing a baby shower for somebody and them having to ask their friends for what they should put on their registry because they had to get the registry right. Because if they didn’t get the registry right when the baby came, they wouldn’t have the right things. And the amount of stress.

that went with this was just, I just felt so bad for this particular young mom. trust, there, think trust is one of those words, it’s like a jello on the wall word. So I define trust in four different ways. There are four different kinds of trust. So the first kind of trust is intentional trust. So I’ll walk through them and then we can come back and say, so how do we do this as a mom?

Willow (07:44.855)

Love it.

Heather Harrison (07:44.867)

So intentional trust is, trust that you have the best intentions or that I have the best intentions, which serve in any relation, serve me well and serve you well if we have intentional trust. The next kind of trust is competency. I trust that I or you have the competence to do what we say we’re gonna do. We’ve got the skills, the knowledge.

The third one is contractual trust. I trust that you’re gonna do what you say you’re gonna do or that I’m gonna do what I say I’m gonna do. I’m gonna follow the contract. And then the fourth one is self-awareness. That to the degree that we are aware of ourself or the other person is aware of themselves will increase the likelihood that we can trust them because we know who they are.

Willow (08:25.668)

Mm-hmm.

Heather Harrison (08:42.606)

And like you said, that social media, we think we know, but we have no idea what’s going on behind the picture. So if I back up and I say, intentional trust, can you trust your own intentions? Can you trust that you’re a child of God and that you’re gonna do the very best?

that you can do and that your best is going to be good enough for this child. And I think this is an everyday conversation with yourself of, yeah, I’ll do anything I can for this kid, but it’s also about staying in the moment. You know, so often we get into that distorted fantasy, futureized.

thinking, but just in the moment, can I trust that when it’s crying or having a temper tantrum that I have their best intention in mind?

Willow (09:55.182)

Mm-hmm.

Heather Harrison (09:55.651)

And I think that’s a question in a conversation with yourself. And when you know that you don’t have their best intention in mind, I mean, they’ve been crying for a long time or they’re temper tantrum, you have no patience trusting that you can and will go take care of yourself so that you’re prepared to give them the best intention that you can.

And that’s another conversation I have with parents, well, and everybody a lot is self-care, self-ish.

and the definition that I give them is selfish behaviors, any behavior that would radically negatively impact someone else.

If it’s not that, then you’re actually being self-aware and taking self-care.

Right, so if I went home and my kids were one, two, and three and said, too tired, not going to cook dinner, selfish.

Willow (11:02.447)

Mm-hmm.

Heather Harrison (11:03.652)

But now if they’re all at our house and they’re 28, nine and 30, no, not selfish if I say I’m not gonna cook dinner because they can and it would be good for all of us. That’s being self-aware and taking self-care. So what does that translate to a toddler screaming? It might look like letting the toddler, making sure they’re in a safe place and going into your bathroom for three minutes and breathing.

It might look like putting on earplugs so you can see them but not hear them so that you can care for them out of your best intentions and you can trust yourself that you have their best in mind.

Willow (11:52.751)

Talk to us about the next three, competency, contractual, and self-awareness.

Heather Harrison (11:59.813)

Yeah, that competency one, I think is a really big one. It goes back to exactly what we were talking about that. I’m not enough. I mean, and so let’s face it, no babies ever come with an instruction booklet. if you’re wouldn’t that be nice? I wish, right? A job aid. And if you’re a first time mom, you’ve never been a mom before.

Willow (12:15.98)

What? Mine did. I’m joking. I wish.

Heather Harrison (12:29.28)

So those are facts. But what I believe and what I try to facilitate others in believing is that we are uniquely designed to be this child’s parent. And with education and experience, all of us can go do many jobs. Lots can be nurses and doctors and computer scientists.

But we are uniquely designed to be this person’s mother. And so trusting that God, who is the designer, has designed us to work in the best interest of this child.

And so again, what we think impacts how we feel, impacts how we act. So if I can tell myself I’m uniquely designed to be in my case, Adam’s mother, I will feel more confident and I will act in ways that are confident. But if I keep telling myself, boy, Willow, you could be Adam’s mother much better than I could.

I will feel anxious and I will hesitate in how I engage in parenting.

Willow (14:00.175)

Yeah, I think that’s so true that a lot of moms, including me, I remember doing this when my kids were younger where I tended to trust what other people thought I should do with my kids more than what I thought I should just because I was always second guessing my competency. And I think we’re being sold a million and a half different kind of philosophies on how to parent, whether it’s how, like,

what kind of food to feed them and when to introduce it and how to discipline or not discipline or all of these things where you’re just bombarded and you stop trusting like your own sense of I love this child more than anyone else and God made me their mom what do I think is best

Heather Harrison (14:45.964)

is so, so true. I mean, I resonate with that completely. And I think the mothers of this generation have so much noise coming at them, so much data, story, fact coming at them about how to rear a perfect child, which you and I know there is no such thing. There’s no such thing.

Willow (15:08.27)

Perfect child. I have yet to meet one.

Heather Harrison (15:14.164)

Me as well. And you know, to even be able to hear yourself, it’s like you need to walk out of the bar or the cocktail party that’s just roaring with noise and go over and sit by the creek to just hear, well, what actually do I think? How do I want to feed them? How do I want them to engage with others? What is important to me?

and really get clarity on what does competency mean to you, what is important to you. And I often, I would say this to myself, I would say it to moms currently too and other people, but let’s begin with the end in mind. What do you want to see in 18 years?

And most of us want to see a healthy-ish human being that can go do life on their own for good for the world. Now that can come in a hundred thousand different forms, but stepping back and saying, okay, so what do I need to do in this one minute in front of me?

Willow (16:26.958)

You know, it’s interesting because I think when you question your own competency, it makes sense that you’d go and gather wisdom from other people. I certainly did that. I met with multiple moms who are older than me. Like I went searching for mentor moms basically and was like, you’re ahead of me. I want to learn from you. What worked, what didn’t work. What do you wish you would have done differently? What do you, you know, I love learning from them. I read books. I read blogs like

Listen, you know, people are listening to podcasts. All those things are good, but how do you take all this different information? Because it’s not bad to learn from other people, but how do you take it and go, you know what, I might take a little bit of this and learn a little bit of this and implement a little bit of this, but still keep that sense of not second guessing yourself all the time.

Heather Harrison (17:17.308)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that two things come to mind is one, moving to the contractual trust piece. Let’s go there first. Because again, that contractual trust piece, can I do what I say I’m going to do? And the question you’re posing, which is really powerful, is how do I sift through all of this?

And how do I listen to my own voice? So there’s, you know, I think of almost what’s coming to my mind is a Venn diagram of there’s all this wisdom out here. And then I hear my own voice. Where’s that overlap that’s beginning to just resonate with what I value and what I want this human being to be doing when they’re

18 years old and likely no longer under my care and roof to the extent that they are now. What really resonates with me and I think here it’s where we get into a conundrum because there’s not a right or wrong and there’s not a black or white and that’s actually distorted thinking when we think it’s right or wrong or black or white.

There is a way that’s uniquely designed for you that, again, you need to trust you’ve got your best intentions. You can do it because you’re the uniquely designed for it. You’ve said, is what I want to do and trust that you’ll know when it doesn’t work. I remember I had my I’m six feet, my husband six, four. So consequently, have very tall children.

And our first two kids were sons and were really good at basketball. Well, as you can imagine, the coaches wanted them to play. They wanted to play a lot. And they did not want. In fact, they forbid them from going skiing. And

Heather Harrison (19:28.996)

Both my husband and I grew up skiing. We taught our kids when they were three and four to ski. And we were going to ski because this is a time as a family we could actually, the five of us could be together. And so we valued family time. We valued doing something together as a family. And we valued looking ahead to when they were 25 and likely not professional NBA players still having something to do together as a family.

And so we said to the coaches, we’re going to ski. And whatever that means, if you need to bench these two really good players, then you need to bench them. And that could have gone many ways, but that’s an example of we were making a contract. What we do is what we’re going to say we’re going to do based on our values, based on our vision. And we were going to know really soon we’re going to get feedback. Does that work?

does that not work? So for the kids at work, they wanted to ski. For the coaches, it didn’t work so well, but their competitive spirit won over their rules and they still played these kids a lot. but you’re gonna run when you, look at what you value, look at where you wanna go, take in what everybody’s else is saying.

sit in silence and see what God is saying to you, make a choice, and then proceed because you’ll get feedback from the world at large and yourself and your kids, is this working? Then keep walking. Is this not working? Then pause and consider what the next good enough step is gonna be for you.

Because again, we’re not going for the right wrong perfectionistic product in this.

Willow (21:32.504)

Talk to us about the Self-Awareness Trust.

Heather Harrison (21:35.798)

Yeah, know, self-awareness is so important and myself included and many mothers, I think we just tend to override self and we don’t see self often until self is an absolute mess because we throw her a hundred percent into rearing. But when we can step back and self-awareness at a very basic level is stopping

to just scan your body and say, okay, what am I thinking right now? We’ve got 90,000 thoughts. Most of them are just thoughts. Few of them are facts. Let’s let the thoughts go. Let’s keep the facts. So a thought, I’m not good enough. That is a thought, not a fact. Fact, God created me to be the mom of this kid. That’s a fact.

Be aware of your thoughts, let them go, keep the facts, be aware of your emotions. Emotions are real and they’re like waves. We need to sit in them, experience the sadness, the anxiety, the frustration. And like a wave, it’s gonna come in, but it’s gonna go out. And we need not make decisions out of the emotions. They’re like consultants, they come in and tell us something’s up.

lights on in the car, but they’re not meant to be our CEO. Because when they’re our CEO and we lead out of anger or frustration, it never works. So self-aware of your emotion and then self-aware of your body. What’s my body experiencing right now? You my gosh, my shoulders are under my ears and my gut hurts. You probably need to step away for a minute or a night and figure out how to make that work for you so that

Willow (23:00.355)

Mm-hmm.

Heather Harrison (23:29.516)

you know, full circle back, you can trust your intentions and your skills and competencies and do what you say you’re gonna do.

Willow (23:39.183)

That’s a good word for an old mom. I’m an old mom now and I needed to hear that. That’s really good. I I suppose some of the biggest mistakes I made as a mom were probably when I operated out of my emotions.

Heather Harrison (23:57.399)

I mean, and all of us have been there. Let’s put motherhood aside. I mean, we’ve been there as spouses, friends, and coworkers, right? Yeah, absolutely.

Willow (24:04.623)

Yes, yes. One of the things I want to talk to you about for sure Heather before our time ends together because I think it’s so fascinating. You’ve recently done a really cool project where you’ve compiled, you’ve gone and talked to older parents and compiled from them what they would do differently versus what they would do the same and

I’m so curious for young moms listening today, what did you find out that you can pass down to us?

Heather Harrison (24:37.101)

Hmm

Well, you know, I started this project when I think the kids were two, three and four and I was out there looking for data, but I, there are tons of great books written, but I wanted real life experience. And so I would literally go up to moms and churches and grocery stores and neighborhoods that I knew that I didn’t know. And I would say, Hey, would you mind telling me if you had to do motherhood over again, what you would do the same and what you would do differently.

So I captured hundreds of stories and examples. And fairly recently, I was just compelled to take this out of the computer and put it in a book, which would be out before Mother’s Day. I called it on being a mother. And maybe I’ll just read a couple excerpts because as I have sat and edited and reread these stories, I mean, I get

Willow (25:23.855)

Hmm.

Heather Harrison (25:38.574)

goosebumps, get tears and I get tremendous peace and hope out of this journey called motherhood because I think what I’ve learned is we are so much more so much more similar than we are different even though I mean I’m talking to mothers that had kids as teenagers, mothers that had kids as 40 year olds, Christians, non-Christians, stay at home, work full time.

I’m in the whole nine yards, but we are way more similar than we are different. And although we feel like we’re alone, we are so not alone in this journey called motherhood. And that to a T, every woman would say, I really had no idea what I was doing. Yet when you read this book, it’s just like wisdom coming right out at you.

So do we have a moment to read a couple of them? I’ll just randomly, mean, let’s page and. Story time. So this is if I were to do it the same, I would stop to savor to wrestle to read to make some cookies to watch a cartoon to have a pivotal conversation and to enjoy the fact that my children welcome my presence.

Willow (26:42.689)

Yeah, let’s hear it. I love it. I’m going to kick back and listen to you.

Heather Harrison (27:09.899)

I would read together, picking out books to read was a big deal.

Heather Harrison (27:19.437)

Times have changed a great deal in the past 55 years, and I would still make it a priority when possible to spend quality time with my kids.

Heather Harrison (27:39.245)

I would spend more time playing with my kids rather than working all of the time. We needed to just kick back and have some downtime together.

Heather Harrison (27:52.225)

I was a teacher in our local school district, which meant I was always close by. When my girls were in high school, I had the opportunity for a dream job 30 miles from our home. If I were to do it over again, I would have stayed at the local school.

Heather Harrison (28:16.157)

begin with the end in mind, I would consider the quality of relationship I wanted to have with my kids as adults and the fundamental qualities I hoped they would learn. I would do my best to parent them towards that. This end picture is not always easy to keep in mind during the long nights and tough times, but it’s a nice touchstone that helped keep me focused.

Heather Harrison (28:56.907)

I would put my relationship with my husband before the parent-child relationship. He will be here, hopefully, long after they are gone.

Heather Harrison (29:16.513)

When my child pulled away from his faith, I would have had the courage and transparency to ask deeper, harder questions. I still don’t know how, but I try to be vulnerable without being manipulative. Maybe when I figure it out, God will give me a do-over.

Heather Harrison (29:40.053)

I wish I could explain to young mothers how wonderful an empty calendar is. Not having the busy stay at home mom lifestyle, music class together, the mommy play dates, the trips to the zoo, the art class. Or the busy mom works full time lifestyle, camps, classes, vacations, sports, schedule, schedule, schedule. Or the busy mom works part time lifestyle, all of the above.

I would give my family time. I’m not saying the activities are not helpful, enriching, important, and fun. Truly, I’m not. I’m saying I would not let them fill up a calendar. I would not let them rob me of the space and time it takes to really live and see my children.

Heather Harrison (30:32.769)

Here’s one we can probably relate to. would not worry about the chores. I would realize they would wait for me when I had more time and more energy, whenever that was.

Heather Harrison (30:49.419)

Here’s maybe one more. I would understand that breastfeeding is really hard and that breastfeeding and working full time is really, really hard. I would not put so much pressure on myself. Juggling a family, pumping, work, et cetera, is more than any one person can handle. I would do my best and realize I supplemented with formula. well. No one ever grows up to say, mom,

I would have been better off if you had not given me formula. I would find a mommy network. I would include moms with kids similar in age or just slightly older so I could have a gut check that I’m not crazy. I would also include moms in my network with much older kids. They’ve been through more and often have a good perspective. I would remember what is traumatizing for me right now may not be so bad once I hear how things come out.

on the other side.

Willow (31:50.532)

You know, Heather, it’s really cool to listen to all those things. I think what’s striking me is if I could, I’d go back and do it all over again. Not because I have a lot of regrets at all, but not that I don’t have regrets or things I do differently, but I’d go back and do it all over again so I could be with my kids. But we don’t get to. But to learn from people who’ve gone before us.

Heather Harrison (32:10.733)

Mm.

Heather Harrison (32:17.675)

Mm-hmm.

Willow (32:18.669)

to learn and hear those stories and they make you reflect and they make you think, huh, is there something I can do? Because I can’t change the past, but I can change something today. I can change something tomorrow. And so to glean wisdom from all of these people that you’ve compiled these stories from is just a gift. So I’m excited. I didn’t know when you first came on here that you were putting out a book. So this is a really exciting.

Heather Harrison (32:37.453)

you

Willow (32:46.975)

a thing to find out and how are you feeling about putting this out in the world?

Heather Harrison (32:52.831)

Well, you know, I think I’ve gotten to this age and stage in life where if I’m teaching or writing, if it helps one person in any way, or form, it’s a win. And I know how much I’ve gleaned from other people sharing their life stories. And sometimes I glean it from the hard stuff and sometimes the good stuff.

But what you picked up on is exactly a piece of what I pick up on is presence, is how impactful our presence is, which doesn’t often look like doing much. And that’s the world says, do, do. You are what you do, but it’s all about being. So if the words in this book or a word or a story helps someone be

a little more kind and present with themselves and must be kind and compassionate to their children or someone else, then it’s been used for good. And if it doesn’t, I know, yeah.

Willow (34:04.195)

Heather, I have to ask you. Just because there could be women listening where even the encouragement of presence can feel like immediately because she’s juggling working and paying the bills and you know a job where she can’t be as present as other moms or where she can’t be as present as she wants to be.

Heather Harrison (34:23.926)

Yeah.

Heather Harrison (34:31.071)

Mm-hmm.

Willow (34:31.979)

What is she supposed to do with that wrestling or shame or guilt? Like, yes, I know that’s the number one thing I need to give my kids and yet I can’t give them as much presence as I want to. What does she do about that in her own heart and mind?

Heather Harrison (34:46.22)

First of all, she recognizes shame and guilt are both an emotion. Okay, so we’re going to go back and just sit with that wave of emotion and let it dissipate. Shame also is our number one lie teller, and it’s going to tell us we’re not enough in some way, shape, form. So back to our thoughts to say that is a thought, not a fact. I am enough.

designed by the God who made me enough, those two things. And then presence, because this is often what we do, right? We supersize and think, oh my gosh, I need to be 24 seven present with them. And like you said in the beginning, am I too present? I’m not present enough. Present can look as simple as when your kid comes to you next time with anything, just look them in the eye and say, I get it.

I’m here.

Period. And that can look like pausing for a second while you’re washing dishes. Or maybe it looks like I really want, I’ve worked all day, I’m exhausted. I think I need to feed them XYZ, but we’re making Kraft macaroni and cheese and we’re building a fort under the table and we’re just going to sit there and eat out of the pot, put the pot in the sink and go read a book.

taking all those expectations off and just getting simple so that you can be present.

Willow (36:26.671)

So much good wisdom from you Heather and I know that I could ask you a million questions for young moms so we’ll have to have you on again but for people listening who want to follow along with what you do and want to check out this book for young moms how can they do that?

Heather Harrison (36:44.37)

three different ways. And one central spot you can actually just go to, go to HeatherAnneHarrison.com and that’s my website. And on my website, my phone number is there, my email address is there. You can call me, text me, write me. I’ll get back to you within 24 hours and there you go.

Willow (37:14.447)

Heather, thank you so much for being on today.

Heather Harrison (37:16.844)

thank you Willow. I really appreciate it. And I know we’ve just kind of nicked the top of the surface. And my parting comment is truly if you heard anything that for whatever reason hooked you into shame or judgment today, it literally was not for you. Throw it in the garbage can. Take only what is helpful for you to take the next best step in your motherhood journey.

Willow (37:44.463)

Such a good word. Thank you, Heather.

Heather Harrison (37:46.668)

You’re welcome. Thank you.

Willow (37:49.989)

Good job.