Scouting God Out with Margaret Feinberg

Hey there! Welcome to the Collide Podcast. This is Willow Weston, the founder and director of Collide, and I get to host this podcast every single week.

This is season six. I can't believe I've been sitting in a room interviewing people for what is six seasons.

We're on our sixth year and I have to say that it's one of my very favorite things I get to do. I love to hear stories of how God is showing up and colliding with people and, and calling them and using them and purposing them and healing them.

And we have conversations over and over and over again every single week where we get to hear about this God who is personal and powerful and present and here and alive and well and good redemptive work in people's lives. I hope these conversations encourage you and inspire you and today's will be no different.

I got to sit with Margaret Feinberg, who is a popular Bible teacher, speaker, writer of multiple best selling books. She's the podcast host of a podcast called the Joycast.

She actually was just named one of the 50 women most shaping culture in the church today by Christianity Today, and her and I have a great conversation and so I hope you will enjoy it. Here it is. Margaret, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. I was actually told about you that you drive 50 miles to Chase down a food truck.

And so I'm so excited to have a fellow foodie on the podcast because I would probably get in that car with you and drive with you. So I thought the best way to start this conversation is to ask you what's the best food truck you've eaten at lately?

Ooh. We have a Mexican food truck in our local Walmart parking lot. And I cannot remember the name of it, but they have like $3 tacos and they are amazing.

I'm, I, I'm always down for any Mexican, but you can be Mexican food truck. Yes, please. Yes, please. And they have all the like fresh salsas and the little squeeze of lime and. Oh, so good.

I love that. I love that. Have you been to Portland, by the way?

Yes. Oh my gosh. Portland is like foodie capital. It is. I, I leave very heavy every time I go because I just.

City of food truck. Yeah. My husband actually eats at a different Mexican food truck every single day for lunch.

And so if you get in his truck when, when we're going somewhere, it just always smells like his food truck food. Like it just always. And he leaves like the garbage in there. It's fun. It's A fun thing, but we share the love of food.

I have to say, as I was reading up about your life, it was interesting to hear. Your dad was recently inducted into the Surfers hall of Fame and your mom earned her Captain's license for 60 ton ships.

So it sounds like you had these incredible parents.

And I, I'm just curious, and this is kind of a big question, but what do you think your experience with these amazing humans taugh you most that you bring into your everyday life?

You know, my parents, we moved around a lot as a kid and they gave me the gift of loving adventure.

So even though I was, you know, born in Melbourne, Florida, then we lived in Maggie Valley, North Carolina, then, you know, Steamboat Springs, Colorado, I fell in love with my husband in Sitka, Alaska. You know, I am always game for an adventure to go, experience to try new things to. I, I just. Yes is the answer. Yes and yes and let's go.

I love that Adventure is what they gave you. That's awesome. And now you're living this crazy, adventurous life. You're a speaker, you're an author, you're a podcast host.

What happened in your life where God showed you that he wanted to use you to become a voice to help others?

That's such a great question.

You know, I don't, I don't remember any moment when there was a particular calling or like some people describe they have this encounter with God or profound. I just, I loved writing. And when I graduated from college, I thought, man, more than anything, I want to be a writer.

And so I went down to my little local library. I check out all the books on writing. They said 90% of writers never make it. And I thought, that's perfect.

So I just started writing reviews in the back of little magazines and working my way up to feature stories and cover stories and earning the editor's trust and then eventually into books. And then once I wrote a book, somebody said, hey, could you come talk about that? I was like, sure, I'll go talk about that.

And then they said, could you come back? And so that was, Gosh, that journey began almost 25 years ago. And so it's been an incredible adventure.

Challenging, difficult, a ridiculous amount of work, but something that I have loved doing. I like to say there are some things that you run toward, but then there are some things you can't run away from.

And this has been something that I just, I just, every time I'm like, I'm done, I'm done, I'm ready to quit, it's like that that extra little nudge or that sweetness from the spirit comes in and says, nope, not. Not yet, babe, not yet.

I love hearing that. I'm actually working on finishing up a book that I've been working on for way too long. And it's so easy to want to give up.

And I love your attitude to hear that 90% of authors fail and you're like, well, let's go for it. I mean, I'm the personnel that's like, oh, 90% fail from that. I love that you're just, like, running towards it.

You truly are a woman who likes adventure.

Absolutely.

You're the podcast host of a podcast called Joycast. And I just want to know, has joy always come easy for you? It feels like that's, that's something that's hard to come by for some people.

So to host a podcast called the Joycast, I wondered if it's just always been a thing for you.

Yeah, you know, a couple, a number of years ago, I, I, I realized, like, I wanted to understand and know joy. I, I wanted. I just went on this crazy pursuit. And so I spent a year researching for a book about joy.

And I did everything from, you know, the, the positive science, the biblical perspective, the, you know, really kind of did a super de. And all the things that can bring joy to our life.

And I was about two weeks from finishing up the manuscript and turning it in when I reached underneath my arm and I felt a lump. And I soon discovered that I had cancer.

And so while I had been looking and seeking joy in the relatively good times of life, now I had to try to discover joy in the midst of the darkness and the despair and the depths. And what I began to discover is that more than joy, or more, more than whimsy, joy is the weapon we use to fight life's battles.

And that joy is something that is an action. It's something that we can do. It's not just an emotion or it's not just a feeling. It is.

It is a resolute, a defiant act that we can make even in the midst of hard things. And joy is this magical substance that you can give it away even when you don't have it.

And that's pretty incredible that you can still, even when you don't have it, like you can dispense joy through acts of kindness and graciousness and encouragement to others.

It's really something to say that. And it's another thing to actually have to do it.

And it's interesting to me that you were studying it like your head was studying it and your heart was open to it, but then your life circumstance necessitated it. How did you fight that battle? By being, you know, you called it a resolute, defiant act, like a choice.

Like, what did that actually look for you, like, for you as you were fighting your battle with cancer?

Such a great question. In the book, in the Bible study, Fight Back with Joy, I dive into dozens of tactics that I used in order to use joy as weaponry.

One that I remember was going back for another scan and just knowing that, you know, it was a question of how far where the cancer had spread to. And it was just more than I could handle. And I remember my husband was playing music in the car. It was about an hour drive to the hospital.

And on the way, he played the song by Matt Redmond that talks about, you know, this idea that we praise and we worship, you know, no matter what.

And I remember climbing in the CAT scan that day and laying there and thinking, lord, I wonder if anybody has offered up praise and worship to you from this place.

And so I just started praising, like, I just started offering up singing, which we know is something that chemically alters us to experience more endorphins. But it was more than that. It was intimacy, spiritual with.

With.

With God, my creator. And I feel like I. I realized that day, like, one of the ways we fight back with joy is that we rejoice when it makes no sense.

And I don't know where, for some of our listeners, where that dark place is. For some of you, it's in a school classroom. For others of you, and it's in a hospital.

For others of you, it's in the bedroom where your pillow catches your salty tears. But can you identify the darkest part place in your life and start offering up praise in that place? Can you identify that one square inch?

I think because when we declare and when we practice a defiant joy, we declare to the darkness that it has not and will not win.

I love that so much. I love that you say rejoice when it makes no sense, because I think we all go through such tough seasons for different reasons.

And there's definitely days where you just feel like you can't muster up an ounce of joy or a feeling of happiness. You can't see light at the end of the tunnel, and you're kind of calling us to rejoice when it makes no sense. Rejoice on those days.

Like sing praise when you feel like it's almost foolish.

Exactly, exactly. And. And give it up. I mean, I think another is. I remember one day, it was towards the end of the chemo treatment, and it was just. It.

I'd had a really terrible response to chemo, and I just. I couldn't face going back for another treatment. It was. It was more than I could handle.

And I remember climbing in the car yet again for the long drive to the hospital and just going, I can't. And I said, leif, wait. My husband. I said, wait, can we run into the grocery store?

And so I went in the grocery store and I bought about a dozen red helium balloons. And so pack them in the car. They're banging around, by the way. Driving with balloons, like, not great.

Okay, we all love balloons, but nobody thinks about the transport. It's rough, guys. Like, one day I feel like I'm going to get a car accident because you just can't see. They're always in the. It's crazy. I'm surprised.

Like, police let us drive with balloons. But anyway, so I get to the chemo ward, and I've got no hair left. I'm weak, I'm sick.

And I remember going around to all the other chairs where people were receiving the medication that day and just offering, hey, would you like a red balloon? And I remember some people said, no. Others said, no, I don't want a balloon, but can I have a hug?

I remember one granddaughter was there, and she's like, I want all the balloons, you know, and. And that. That you can give away joy even when you don't have it. And by the time I climbed in the chair that I sit in, I had the strength to be there.

And so there are these tactics, these ways that we rise up and fight back with joy that make a big difference. And it may. It's going to look different for everybody. Not everybody's going to go buy a bunch of balloons. But. But that sense that you can.

You can give away that which you don't have and in the end, end up with it multiplied, that's a gift from God. That's a gift of grace.

Such a beautiful story, Margaret. I mean, and. And how contagious is that? I can imagine being the other people in that space where they might have felt the same way that morning.

Like, how can I get in my car and do this drive and go back and do this horrific thing? And I feel terrible and I don't want to do it. And you spread joy to them.

That probably inspired them to want to maybe not just look in, but look out and spread joy to others. I mean, it's just such a contagious. Joy is contagious.

It's fabulously contagious. It really is. I love. Laughter is contagious. Even scientifically, if you dumb laughter. It all boils down to several handfuls of syllable syllables.

A ha ha ha, he he, he, ho ho ho. But it's actually the one language that all of humanity shares in common is the language of laughter.

And it is, you know, you get one person laughing. I know that. You know, it spreads throughout a room. Joy is contagious and it's free. It is costly, but it is free if it can be both.

And you can give away a warm smile, you can give away a glimmer in the eye, you can give away a hug, you can give away the gift of really listening and of presence. And it's transformative to other people's lives and communities and to our world.

What's your advice for people who are experiencing something? I'm just thinking about people listening.

And I've seen this before where people can almost get stuck in a place where they feel like joy is not an option for them because. Fill in the blank. But I'm thinking about. I've known people who almost feel ashamed about feeling joy in the current circumstance they're in.

Almost like, you know, friends who've lost spouses and they might actually feel like laughing at something or feel like enjoying something, but they feel a sense of shame that almost there's no room in their grief to have joy. What's your advice for people who feel that way?

Yeah, you know, grief and its expressions and depression. You know, I struggle with depression. I struggle with grief. Grief is like a river that.

That as it flows and as you allow it to flow, it washes away the debris, washes away the stones, and there is a cleansing and there is a purity that comes out of that. And so I think that if you're not feeling how you think you should feel, I think first of all, we need to silence that little voice in our head.

And that's not just about, you know, maybe grief or loss or depression and joy, but that's all of it. Emotions are our tutors that they are not. They have something that they're trying to reveal to us.

They have something that they're trying to work in us. They're. They are worth listening to. Now.

There are times we want to make sure that we're not just letting them run rampant, you know, like in Crazy Town, like just all of our emotions everywhere.

But.

But, you know, when you're feeling Grief, let it roll. Let the tears flow. When you're feeling joy, let the belly laugh out. These are gifts.

This is your body processing and metabolizing what you're experiencing, what you have been experiencing, and likely what you also experience from the past.

I was talking with someone the other day who was on a date. And I don't know why I'm thinking about this, but it's kind of interesting. They're on a date and they want to have fun with this person.

They're getting to know this person. And so they go do this kind of like whimsical, silly, simple, childlike activity. And they watch the person that they're dating be unable to have fun.

And we started having this conversation about. Some people haven't been given permission slips from their family of origins to just enjoy something, to just laugh, to just be smitten, to be silly.

What's your advice for people who kind of joy was stifled in their family of origin and it feels almost like this big vulnerable act to. To be joyful?

Yeah. I would encourage them to latch on to joyful people in their lives. Latch on. There are people, I am not one of them, who are just naturally hilarious.

They are just funny. You meet them, you need to make those people like your best friends.

Like go to tea, go for a walk, go to the gym, go like, like try to bump into them regularly, whatever. Be a little stalkerish, you know, like, definitely put those people in your life because they're. Freedom is contagious.

You know, that's one of the gifts. Also, joy is contagious.

But I think freedom is contagious too, that when we discover freedom, that just being ourselves can help set other people free.

And so if that is, you find some silly people to hang out with who do just fun or ridiculous things, who love to go tubing or, you know, biking or to silly movies to go see comedies or comedians. Put yourself with them and enjoy the freedom that they're bringing. And learn.

Learn from it, study it, share your struggles, be vulnerable with them and thank them for being them. Because I bet those people also haven't been encouraged, you know, by just saying, man, just by being you, I'm a better person.

I'm learning from you simply not. Not, yeah, not from a lecture, but just your very presence. And it's a gift to me.

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Yeah, not from a lecture, but just your very presence. And it's a gift to me.

Yeah.

When you were going through your season of battling cancer, did you have people who, I mean, were there simple things that other people did for you that brought you joy? Do you have a memory of something that was really like, stands out, that was like, man, this person really just brought me joy.

And it was such a simple act.

You know, the people. I'm going to answer that two ways. One, and that's because some of the listeners right now have people who may be sick or have chronic illness.

And I think one of the things that was unhelpful in that time period was when somebody would say, well, just tell me what you need.

And I think for anybody who has a friend or a family member who's going through a difficult season, part of the challenge for that person is they're often in crisis and they can't identify what they need. And even if they can, it's changing 24 7.

And so when you go, just tell me what you need and I'll be there, you're actually putting the burden on that other person. It's well meaning, but it's a problem because you're putting the weight of that for them to pick up the phone and call.

And so the people who are super blessings were like, hey, I, I don't know what you need, but here's what I can offer. I can come over and mow your lawn.

I can buy you a gift card to your favorite restaurant or deli, you know, so that you can pick what you want because you probably feel pretty out of control right now in your life and you want a sense of control. So a gift card, rather than me making something for you and dropping it off is a good choice.

Or, or maybe I can offer a night of babysitting or watching your pet and pick one. And then all of a sudden all you have to do is pick.

And I think those people were just such a blessing when they pre came with the things and said pick and that really made a huge difference.

Yeah, that's awesome. Such good advice. I want to move over to a different topic, although we could talk about Joy all day. You wrote a book called Scouting of the Divine.

And a lot of people that we work with around here at Collide, they hear stories of other women sharing about how they're experiencing God, hearing God, being guided by God, comforted by God. And they sort of hear those stories and they want it for themselves. They long for that, but they feel like it's for other people.

I don't experience God. I don't hear God. I don't. I don't connect to God. So what's your advice for those people on how they can scout the divine out?

Yeah, you know, Scouting the Divine. The subtitle was actually My Search for God in Wine, Wool, and Wild Honey. Right. Because we all need some alliteration.

And I actually took a look at the Bible and I looked and started to notice that most of the Bible is written in an agrarian or agricultural world.

And so there's all these stories about Jesus and the disciples and throughout the Old Testament that involve kind of like these stories, food sources, this agricultural world. But I didn't really like. I shop at the grocery store. I don't live in that world.

And so I actually went out and I spent time with a shepherdess outside of Portland, Oregon, a beekeeper in Southern Colorado, a vintner in Napa Valley, California, and a farmer in Nebraska. And I opened up the Bible and I asked, how do you read these passages, not as theologians, but in light of what you do every day?

And their answers change the way that I read the Bible forever. Time and time again, I found myself asking, how did I grow up in the church? How did I study the Scriptures?

How have I listened to so many sermons and podcasts, and nobody has told me these things?

And so for one just kind of little highlight moment, I remember going and spending time with the shepherdess, and she invited me to go and see her flock, which was kept in an upper field. And I borrowed a pair of big boots because, you know, in Portland it is raining all the time, and climbed up there.

And all of a sudden, as we got towards the top of the hill and near the sheep, all of a sudden my friend Lynn starts whispering. And I said, lynn, why are we whispering? And she said, margaret, because at the very first sound of my voice, they will all come running.

And she said, sheep, sheep, sheep. And the entire flock bolted toward her. And In John chapter 10, it describes how God is our Shepherd.

And just as he cries out to us, we like sheep, come and respond. And all of a sudden I saw that parallel that like this is. This is not just imagery within the Bible, but this is how the, how we are really wired.

Like, just as a sheep is wired and created and formed to respond to its shepherd's voice, so too we are wired and created and form to respond to God's voice in our life. Can we make it difficult and run to the far edge of the field, pretend like God's not speaking? Sure.

Can we poke our head through a mesh gate and turn the other way? Absolutely. But God in his goodness and faithfulness, God is the good shepherd, will cry out to us.

And we can be assured that because of his goodness, because of His Word, that we will recognize Him.

I love that word. And I also find you so interesting because there are a lot of people who live daily life longing for joy, but they don't go researching about joy.

There's a lot of people who read the scripture and see that Jesus speaks in parables and talks about wheat and the harvest and the fig trees, and they don't go out seeking a winemaker and a shepherd and these things. Where do you get.

What do you make of this thing about you that doesn't just like long to know something, but you actually go out with your curiosity and seek to find the answers? It's very interesting to me.

Yeah, you know, I am naturally a. Just a super curious person. I like to know and to understand and make connections. And so I think that drives me.

And I think that, you know, I, I in my heart of hearts, like I really long, Like I don't want to just read the Bible. Like, I think faith is more than just like putting your mind to something.

I think it's, it's this thing that is meant to be tasted and touched and seen and smelled and experienced.

I mean, if you look at the roots of the Jewish faith, you will find that they are so experiential that when they gather for the Passover, it is with song, it is with flavors, it is with scent, it is with motion, it is with. It has so much depth to it that is experiential.

And I think sometimes when it comes to faith, people try to just put it in this nice little clean white box like a checklist or, you know, I memorized this or I read that. But I think, I think God wants so much more for us. Like he is the creator God and we are part of his creation.

And he uses all of it to Bring him glory to work his ways in this world, to reveal how much he loves us and to call us back to ourselves, to himself.

And so man, you know, if you start to look in the Bible, I mean, he'll use donkeys and he'll use, you know, stars in the sky and he'll use all these different elements. And that didn't stop, like, at a certain point, God is still using those things.

And most of us have those moments, whether we're looking at a sunset or we're at a funeral and that person's favorite bird shows up and like flies right over. And it shouldn't even be in that region of the country.

Like, we all have these stories that remind us, no, God is here and God is near and God loves us, us so much. And so, yeah, I'm curious. I want to go see, I want to taste it, I want to understand it.

And so for any listeners, I mean, you can check out the Scouting the Divine Book and Bible study. And what's cool is you'll learn all these different things.

You'll get to taste honeys and, you know, maybe you can find a local shepherd or you may be able to find a local farmer or go to a farmer's market together. But to bring that element together in community of knowing God, it makes it, it so much fun.

You know, I think when we think about the disciples following Jesus, I think they'd say a lot of things, but I think that we get to heaven, they would say, and we had the time of our lives following Jesus. And that's the kind of follower of Jesus I want to be.

Through thick and thin, through suffering, through darkness, through depression, through pain, had all of it. I still think it's the best possible way to live.

As I'm listening to you share, I'm thinking how you are actively participating in experiencing God.

And you're actively going out and chasing God down, looking for God, listening for God, studying God, researching God. And that's just inspiring, honestly, it's very inspiring. I think for all of those listening.

It makes me think if we, if we desire a relationship, say with a human, and we're just sitting in our house and we're longing for that relationship and we're just waiting to experience it, but we do absolutely nothing to engage, to initiate, to say hey, want to get coffee or want to have dinner? I mean, you're inviting us into actively participating to taste and see God, and I love that so much.

Talk to us a little bit about your book, Taste and See, because you have another book. And what is that on? And what's your encouragement for us?

Yeah, you know, I wrote Scouting the Divine, and when I was done with the farmer and the shepherd and the vintners, people kept coming up to me and they kept saying, are you ever gonna, like, write about an olive? And within the Bible, like olive and olive oil, because it's so frequent. And I thought, yeah, one day I'm gonna write about that.

Well, I waited 10 years and so just recently completed that journey, but I actually started to look at other foods in the Bible. And what's funny is when I wrote Scouting, I was just curious about agriculture in the Bible, and I didn't realize I was actually writing about food.

Like, that's. That's what it is.

And so this book and Bible study, Taste and See, Discovering God, what was this one among butchers, bakers, and fresh food makers, that one took me. Goodness again, looking at food. I went and plucked figs in Madera, California. I traveled to Croatia and helped bring in an olive harvest.

I fished on the Galilee. I went to McKinney, Texas, and. And studied under a man who calls himself the Meat Apostle and is a professional butcher.

I even tracked down one of the heads of a department at the Yale Divinity School who happens to be an expert on ancient grains.

I cold called him, introduced myself, and invited myself to his house to bake bread for an afternoon, and again followed this process of saying, hey, let's open up the Scripture. Let's not read this as theologians, but in light of what you do every day and.

And that sense of the places in the Bible that seem most distant or most hard to get to or hard to comprehend are often some of the richest ones in order to deepen our understanding of God and Jesus and his just ridiculous love.

So good. I'm already, like, putting stuff in my Amazon cart right now because I want to read some of your books. I'm curious.

You were recently named one of the 50 Women Most Shaping culture in the church today by Christianity Today. Does that feel like a lot of pressure?

That's a good question. No, because I really don't think about it twice. That's probably way too honest. I just don't care her. It's very sweet. I'm very grateful.

And at the same time, like, my job is to Follow Jesus to know Jesus, to make Jesus known. That's it. And so I think where there are accolades or applause, that is good and that is wonderful.

But I learned early on in my career that sometimes they will throw daisies and sometimes they will throw rocks. Pick neither up. And so it. I can always learn from criticism and, and all of that.

And believe me, hear me, I've tracked down people across the country. I've been like, why didn't you like that? How could I write that better? How can I do this better? But I just. It's just not.

I just don't think about it is that I don't. I don't. I don't care.

Yeah. Well, that sounds like a very healthy perspective.

I have to ask you, because I know people listening to your story will want to know, how are you doing with your health?

Yes. Right now there is no evidence of cancer. And I am so wildly grateful. It is just.

That's amazing.

It is pure. Just. We're just grateful. Just. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, God. So, yeah.

But for my sweet friends who are listening and you're in the cancer battle, I am so sorry for what you are going through. And it is depending on the diagnosis and how progressive it is. It is. It is an unspeakable journey.

And all I can say is I, I, you know, you get different sizes. The little size and the, you know, the minute, you know, I got the McNeil, the big one.

And I am just so sorry for what you're walking through and having to navigate and that many of your friends don't know how to respond. I see you, I hear you, and I pray God's grace and strength upon you.

I know that people are going to want to grab copies of your book and check out your Instagram handle and all the good stuff. But before we get to that, I just have to ask you, because I'm listening to your story.

I'm listening to the way that God has wired you what he's doing in your life. And now he's using you to help draw others towards him.

And there's this really unique thing that I think I've already touched on, where you're going out and seeking after what you long to know and experience about God. What's next? What's your next. Oh, I'm, you know, you've been to Galilee, been to all these places. What's your next?

Like, I'm really curious about this. I'm recently researching this. This might be my next book.

I'm really curious about this. It's mentioned in the Old Testament and the New. I'm really curious about the Holy Spirit.

I'm trying to wrap my head and my heart and my mind around that and the beauty and the mystery and maybe some of the boxy baggage thinking that I've had growing up in a religious context, but trying to look at. At scripture anew to recognize the presence, the power, and the mystery that is Holy Spirit.

Well, the Holy Spirit is everywhere. So where are you going to travel to do that research?

That is a great question. Well, I might. Might have to make some new friends and go interview them.

I don't know where that adventure is going to take me yet, but we will find out.

Well, maybe you should come and visit us up in the PNW.

Oh, please, please, please. I love me. I love me some Pacific Northwest. I'm from.

Well, I'm not from, but I fell in love with my husband in Alaska, so lived there for five years in Sitka and Juneau and spent a ton of time. And it's an incredible area of the country. And you guys have the best food.

We do have good food. It can be a problem, but I love it. How can people follow you and check out what you're doing and grab a copy of your book? Books?

Yeah.

Well, they can find me on Instagram @margaretfeinberg and you can just jump over to margaretfeinberg.com website or jump on Amazon and buy some little fun things. But yeah, I'm just so grateful for you. I'm so grateful for this podcast and how you're loving your listeners and just keep going, my friend.

Keep going. You're rocking it.

Thank you, Margaret. Thanks for hanging out with us today.

Thank you.

Hey, friend. I hope that that conversation that I just had with Margaret somehow encourages you in the place that you're in.

I don't know if you're struggling deeply right now to find a reason to be joyful, but I hope that she inspired you to rejoice when it makes absolutely no sense. I'll be right here rejoicing alongside you. I also hope that you were inspired. I just loved.

And you could hear me loving it because I said it multiple times. But I loved how active and participatory she is in wanting to know more of God, seek more of God, learn more about God and God's ways.

And so she goes out on these trips and does research and reads and. And all of that is such an invitation to you and I.

If you want to experience more of God's presence, you want to hear his voice, you want to sense his comfort. Friend, my best advice for you after hearing Margaret share is don't sit and wait for it, but go out looking for it.

Aren't we told that when we seek, we shall find that when we knock, the door will be open to us? My encouragement to you is that you would actively participate in experiencing God, that you would taste and know that he is good.

Keep colliding, friend, and we'll catch you next week.